Commercial vehicle and pre-ADR

[medlock666]

I've been doing some research into the ADR for vehicle modifications and am noticing this statement a lot 'does not apply to commercial or four wheel drive type vehicles such as commercial vans, light trucks, small buses, etc....'.

Does a Bedford count as a 'commercial vehicle'?

The also make reference a lot to requirements for pre-ADR vehicles. My van is one of the weird 77 model (CF 270) transition vans I think that has a mix of CF1 and CF2 parts.

Anyways if its a 77 model does that mean that it is not pre-ADR?

[rumax]

good question, medlock666.
The ARD's first came into effect on 1/1/69...... I think you will find the CF is classed as "NA - LIGHT GOODS VEHICLE - A goods vehicle with a ‘Gross Vehicle Mass‘ not exceeding 3.5 tonnes."
try looking at the document at http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/motor/design/pdf/ADR_Applicability_Summary_N_Group.pdf It may confuse you more.  , or maybe I'm just tired.

Cheers
Russell

[medlock666]

thanks for the pointer Russell so based on your guidance I have found this in the 'Australian Design Rule – Definitions and Vehicle Categories':

4.5.                                    Goods Vehicles
4.5.1.                              A motor vehicle constructed primarily for the carriage of goods and having at least 4 wheels; or 3 wheels and a ‘Gross Vehicle Mass‘ exceeding 1.0 tonne.

4.5.2.                              A vehicle constructed for both the carriage of persons and the carriage of goods shall be considered to be primarily for the carriage of goods if the number of seating positions times 68 kg is less than 50 percent of the difference between the ‘Gross Vehicle Mass‘ and the ‘Unladen Mass‘.

4.5.5.                              LIGHT GOODS VEHICLE (NA)
A goods vehicle with a ‘Gross Vehicle Mass‘ not exceeding 3.5 tonnes.

Then in 'Australian Design Rule 35/02 – Commercial Vehicle Brake Systems' it states that it applies to Light Goods Vehicles. So based on that I would conclude that a Bedford would be classified as a commercial vehicle.

Thanks for the point in the right direction.
Medlock

[medlock666]

Oh and in case you were wondering I came across these questions when looking into maximum capacities for engine swaps.

In the Vehicle Standards Bulletin 14 National Code of Practice for Light Vehicle Construction and Modification (VSB 14) 2011

it states a formula for calculating the recommended maximum engine capacity as: All vehicles originally weighing more than 1100 kg, Naturally Asperated- Original mass (kg) x 5.0 = max. capacity in cc’s. Turbo/Supercharged- Original mass (kg) x 3.0 = max. capacity in cc’s.

However 'does not apply to commercial (ADR Category NA and NB1) or four wheel drive off-road (ADR category MC) type vehicles such as commercial vans, light trucks, small buses, etc. for which there are no set recommended limits.'

this is 'does not apply to commercial vehicles' is also stated later in the performance engine installation part that covers the fitting of a replacement engine with more than 20% greater mass and/or power output than engines offered by the vehicle’s first manufacturer as a standard or optional engines.

[Marishka]

So is it still ok to put a 308 in a SWB poptop,
Ive already got disk brakes and power steering.

[medlock666]

well that Vehicle Standards Bulletin 14 was the most recent article I could find and in there it lists all changes that may need to be made but it pretty much says as long as no major structural changes are made and all transmission and other necessary components are also upgraded (and it lists them) to handle the increase, which as far as i'm aware the real main one is disk front brakes (don't quote me) cuz the rest you would do anyway (diff, gearbox etc). It is still ok.

Im not sure though cuz lots of people on forums are posting that getting engine swaps engineered now is a no go.

I may have to ring an engineer I think cuz those design rules are written like they are ment to confuse the crap out of people and i'm use to reading a lot of guidelines like these.

On a side note id be interested in any info uve got on your power steering conversion mty its on the to do list for my van.

[shaginwagin]

Putting a 253 or 308 into the beddie, you use the same engine mounts as the 186 or 202.   the gear box mount should end up in the same spot, so you aren't altering anything in that respect.  but when you trim out a little bit of the floor to make it fit.as long as you don't cut out the cross member in the floor again you haven't done any structual changes.   thats where the engineer gets involved.    when you go for chevy motors or V6 different engine mounts so structual changes so engineer again.  When you put later motor in than original it has to have all the anti polution stuff for the new motor.  Either way it usually ends up with brake upgrade.  When you go for HQ disc brake set up, which you have to have to keep everyone happy, it will increase the front track a little bit, but I dont think there is any way around it. So I dont think there is a big problem with the rules in that respect..  Just my experience with our beddie....

[medlock666]

thanks for the info Shaginwagin. Yer that's what I though when putting in a newer model engine my understanding is that you have to follow the design rules for its year of manufacturing so if you go new V6 or crate motor chevy you now have to put all the pollution gear etc. As far as 253 or 308 goes if you use the same engine mounts and don't make any structural changes im guessing you still need to get an engineer certificate but with no major changes it shouldn't be to much of a hassle?

[VanWolf]

When I was talking to an engineer, he said that the disc brakes have to be at least the same size of the brakes on the car that the donor engine came out of.

Mike

[BeerBeddy]

If you put a late model engine in and run it straight LPG, you don't have to have the pollution gear. I have a friend that use to build kit cars and that is how he was getting around the rules. As his cars were to be designated by the current year they were built they had to meet all the same standards the big manufacturers have to meet. He has stopped building them now because some of the new rules are not possible for him to meet without huge expense.

Thats not an issue for an old beddy though.

Beerbeddy