Loosing power uphill or under load any ideas?

[Worby876]

Yep sounds like one of your lifters has air in it.

Also I had a look at the timing one as well, and you are doing those readings at idle so you will not get the timing correct  - re read my post on timing.

It needs to be checked/adjusted at working RPM not Idle.

Warren 

So when tuning the engine at working revs ie 2500 RPM do you set the advance at 6 deg for Petrol and 12 for LPG or do you add the total advance
Vacum and Mechanical and if so how do you calculate that? Sorry if Im asking basic stuff but as i guess you've already figured Im still a bit green...

cheers

[Worby876]

Doh? I just re read your earlier post

In your case at working revs 2500- 3000 rpm 6 degrees befor TDC for Petrol and 12 degrees befor TDC .

I somehow got the idea from other stuff I read on line at Old Holden etc that the 6 deg and 12 degrees were set up at Idle.
for INITIAL TIMING...see http://holdenpaedia.oldholden.com/DISTRIBUTOR_TIMING

You can see why Im easily confused...

[Warren]

OK so take a step back, relax and think about it.

It was running before.
It will run again

I just saw your post and read the oldholden stuff, I had forgotten what the actual timing was as I do mine by ear and feel.

From the chart, for a HG 6-8 degree initial, and  33 degrees at 3300 RPM

....Initial Timing, this is the mark that you have set your timing up in relation to the timing mark on the front pulley, know as the (Harmonic Balancer) some engines have their timing mark on the Flywheel.....to get Top Dead Centre,(TDC) in order to get the timing mark lined up with your number one lead point marking on the distributor ridge

The above is how to set the ballpark ignition setting STATICALY (without the Motor running) so that it will start if the motor has just been rebuilt or such.

Initial timing is just the starting point, or optimum idle speed timing - this is not as important as Total timing

However, if you can connect a vacuum gauge up, then by moving the distributor (at idle speed) so as to get the highest reading on the vacuum gauge, at that point your will be just about spot on for the Initial Timing mark, so you can then mark that NEW position and move on from there as to what timing you after.

This is for getting the initial timing with a vacuum gauge and the engine running.

And as I said - NOT AS IMPRTANT as TOTAL TIMING

Total Timing: It is the combination of the initial timing, plus mechanical timing

Centrifugal advance or sometimes called mechanical advance. It is governed by the speed of the engine (RPM)

Total timing is the main one to be concerened with.

From the chart, for a HG 6-8 degree initial, and  33 degrees at 3300 RPM

So with the engine running on petrol, and the lever in the petrol position, at idle you should see with a timing light the 6-8 degree mark line up with the indicator on the pulley/harmonic balancer.

Rev the engine up to 3300 RPM and the indicator mark should have moved to now line up with the 33 degree mark.

If not rotate the dizzy till it does.

Just add 6 degrees to those figure when running on gas with the lever in the gas position.

Warren


   

[Worby876]

Thanks Warren,

Thanks...BIG DEEP BREATH...   I appreciate your patience...

So... Roughly how far would 33 degrees be from the main timing mark? The little indicator only is a bout an inch wide with a number o small lines and one longer line painted white. And just to be clear...treat me like a 4 year old as a I face the motor the mark should advance to the left anticlockwise is that correct?

Again many thanks much appreciated

cheers

[Warren]

Umm Geez as I have said I do mine by feel/hearing so I will have to lift the bonnet and have a look.

Also to get an idea of how far 33 degrees is a full rotation is 360 - half 180 quater 90 one quater is 45 so it is about 1/3 of that.


Warren

[Worby876]

Gday Fellas,
Hope your having a good weekend mines been a bit of a mixed bag.

Ive been reading up on tuning 202 motors using Vacuum gauge, tacho,
timing lights, and by ear..listening to the sound of the motor.

It was a bleak and dull day , so not wanting to mow the lawn or go
anywhere, i thought I'd have another tinker on the beddy

Well it started..surprisingly first go on LPG..and the ticking sound was gone !!

Then I tried starting on Petrol and she took ages to finally start...(thought I was gonna flatten the battery)
She was idling pretty rough, so I disconnected dads push me pull me device..loosened the retaining bolt on the
dizzy base and manually tried different positions and it died..couldn't get it going for a bit either...thought
to my self ..you idiot just leave it till you can book a mobile mechanic...

After a coffee..I tried again...success...Got it idling really nice..best vacuum just over 20 hg got the timing light
and moved the dizzy till it was 6-8 degrees BTDC ..sweet...no ticking...revs smoothly all the way up to 3,000 RPM
and observed timing mark advanced about 28 degrees..nearly in line with where the belt comes off the pulley.

Then I decided to take her for a short run...but she laboured up the drive way and when I drove her around the street
to the colder-sak she stalled and I had to really nurse her with heaps of revs and felt she was struggling with loss of power
under load.

Here's a Video I took and posted on Youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGtVO3FDKwU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Let me know what you reckon? 

Im gonna see if I can get a mobile mechanic come and look at her.

cheers

[Warren]

Worby

It's certainly idling well, and you confirmed that it is advancing as well.

so of the things that are involved Air, Fuel, Timing and Spark, timing seems OK.

Air - have you replaced or removed the air filter - change in suction pressure can affect fuel/air mix.

Fuel - is the filter clean - lack of fuel will affect fuel/air mix.
         Fuel pump is it supplying enough fuel ?
         Carby is any of the ports /jets blocked due to gunk in the fuel?

Spark - Are the Spark plugs old/ gapped incorrectly - this can affect the combusation of the air/fuel mix.
           Spark plug leads are they new and servicable ?
           Points, are they Gapped correct not warn etc?
           Coil is it servicable or getting enough power to give you a good white spark?

Problem solving is usually a matter of a process of allimination, checking one thing and removing it as the cause and going on to the next.
Start with the cheapest and work up.

Try timing it and Running it an gas and see if there is any difference, if it runs well on gas, but not on petrol then the carby or petrol system is faulty.


Warren








     

[Worby876]

Gday Warren,
Thanks for your comments...

The Airfilter is in place..its old but clean and free from dirt, dust or oil (im trying to get a new one,
but all the usual auto supply shops say its no longer available but Ben reckons he has one to sell me)

New spark plugs, The Colder ones designed for LPG ,I haven't adjusted the gap, so factory set...I don't have the
little  special gap tool , I will get one from Repco tomorrow and try to set them as per Old Holden Notes from T and my Dad.

The fuel filter hasn't had much work since a I replaced it..but its over a year old, so I will get a new one from Repco tomorrow.

With the Engine cover off, I can clearly see the fuel pump seems to be working fine and see the fuel bubbling through the glass
bowl on the top of the fuel pump..so I m sure thats OK.

I can't really say anything about the carby or the state of the jets..I haven't touched them, Dad had them all rebuilt and set up sweet
before he died..and although its been nearly 5 years the Vehicle would have done less than 500 miles in that time.
Still I guess it could be a factor..Im not very confident to go fiddling though..I would need to get it checked out by a mechanic
or Tune Up specialist if that is believed to be the problem.

Same deal with the HEI dizzy , coils, condenser and high tension leads etc  As far as I can see and observe they seem to be functioning
OK...but if this can break down when under load ...I guess they could be a candidate too...Ive noted other postings here and on old Holden
sighting faulty dizzy as cause for loss of power under load.

Ive been reading about these electronic dizzy's with dual curve or graph set up for Dual fuels
eg http://www.dualcurve.com/8790_8791_8792%20for%20Web%20viewing.pdf

or maybe one of these jaycar ignition kits 
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productResults.asp?CATID=&SUBCATID=&keywords=KC5247&part=&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=

http://www.calaisturbo.com.au/archive/index.php/t-120190.html

[Warren]

Worby

If you read those links and understand what theyre doing, well your dads setup is doing a similar thing only in a more basic way.

Warren

[Worby876]

yeah I know..its pretty clever ...but its mechanical...so its prone to movement and
when its out of sync the motor doesn't perform.
Im thinking...hopefully that an electronic version with little or no moving parts might
prove to be more reliable...especially for a person as inexperienced in this sort of stuff.

I guess plug and play kind of thinking 

Anyway..I know my dad was also looking at this as an option as I have seen some of his
threads on various forums talking about it.

I will try the filters and plug settings tomorrow and see if it makes any difference.

cheers