BUGA Community
Technical => Driveline => Topic started by: Zeeman on July 23, 2018, 03:34:37 PM
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Hi all. Recently fitted drop spindles to my Bedford. Unfortunately the negative camber was pretty severe - about 3 degrees. As the stock pressed steel upper suspension arms don't allow any camber adjustment, I thought I would get some adjustable upper arms made up. Thought some of you may be interested. Although it was a decent amount of work, at least I'll be able to dial in the camber to get an exact wheel alignment this way.
(https://i.imgur.com/dkUgq2z.jpg?1)
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Look great!
Do they need engineers pass?
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No idea! I was told verbally at Vicroads that the van can be re registered as is because it has been previously registered with the same running gear (of course that isn't worth a pinch of shit). I can get engineers certification for them if needed. The material is well in excess of engineering requirements ( 1.25" DOM tube with a 6mm wall thickness ).
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I don't think I could do much worse than the original builder's idea of 'engineering':
(https://i.imgur.com/DBJbBMu.jpg)
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Those upper arms look terrific Zeeman, nice one. Sounds like you've got the camber issue sorted
According to the manual, there is some camber adjustment available with the use of small shims under where the lower wishbones bolt to the crossmember. Not sure how effective it is, but next time I go for a wheel alignment I will ask them to try it out. I only noticed it in the manual after my last wheel align, I showed it to the technician (an older guy who has had a couple of Bedfords in the past) and he wasn't aware of it.
I have put pictures of the manual page and the shims at the link below (the pictures are too big to upload here). Item 35 on the diagram is the shim.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EyhuKWwVYyYvx9aEA
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Hi I have just pulled the front end apart and on the drivers side only there were shims in between the crossmember and lower wishbone
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The problem was with the drop spindles I think. The discrepancy was about 15mm at the top arm, too much to correct with shims. I approached Rod Hadfield about it , but the problem was the guy who designed the Bedford drop spindles had since died, and it had been so long since he made a set for Bedford, he couldn't remember the exact specs. The fitting instructions were pretty rudimentary, basically a few scribbled notes. Now I know a lot more though about Bedford suspension setup though! Wanted to make sure Ackerman angle, camber, caster etc were setup properly.
Those upper arms look terrific Zeeman, nice one. Sounds like you've got the camber issue sorted
According to the manual, there is some camber adjustment available with the use of small shims under where the lower wishbones bolt to the crossmember. Not sure how effective it is, but next time I go for a wheel alignment I will ask them to try it out. I only noticed it in the manual after my last wheel align, I showed it to the technician (an older guy who has had a couple of Bedfords in the past) and he wasn't aware of it.
I have put pictures of the manual page and the shims at the link below (the pictures are too big to upload here). Item 35 on the diagram is the shim.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EyhuKWwVYyYvx9aEA
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Yep drop spindles would change the game completely I imagine. Sounds like it was a bit of a mission, well done on figuring it all out!
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Did you go with Bedford drop,spindles or Holden ? If you have the camber sorted you could use Holden and change the ball joints. Could you post the instructions. Rod was pretty vague when I spoke to him. As well.
What did it cost you make or did you do it all yourself ?
Betweeen us all we have to be able to solve this issue. So many beddies want to,drop the front and still have good geometry. Who is going to design the kit ?
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Yeah Zeeman they are shocking!
Not much thought or work went into them that's for sure😵
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Roger (Rogerfied) has already built a great solution using an adapter he designed that uses VT brakes and wheel bearing assembly mounted to the original Bedford stubs standard springs and balljoints lowers it by approx. 50mm and its engineer approved . Its a very clever set up . combined with his Toyota power steering conversion and Commodore independent rear combines to give an exceptionally well handling Bedi .
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I don’t understand how using stock Bedford stub can change height. The stub is the middle of the wheel. Yes mount vt brakes but unless you cut springs or move the position of the stub relative to the position of the a arms the height is going no where
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Rogers adapters mount the commodore stub assembly higher than the Bedford stub ( you have to cut the Bedford stub axle off at the inner bearing seat) . Ill see if roger will post some pics .the adaptors are CNC machined from billet steel they also use the original Bedford/Commodore mounting bolts / im sure he would supply anyone interested
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There's a post about it here ( http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?topic=6021.0 ) . Basically cutting off the stock stub axle and making a bolt on adapter that locates using the old stub axle, lowers 35mm, and uses VY Commodore front brakes / bearings. More than one way to skin a cat..
(https://i.imgur.com/6oqSCyV.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HV9kQyX.jpg)
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I added a picture of the instructions I was given with the Stubtech stub axles. Pretty crap. The stub axles do come with engineers certification though. They were supposedly done to Bedford geometry (but I suspect they are just the HQ version adapted to the Bedford upper ball joint size).
I did pretty much all the work myself, as with my power steering conversion. Couldn't find anyone willing or able to do the work, plus if you take your time and measure everything out (and have half a clue), at least you know it's done properly. Don't have the exact cost at hand, but it was lot. By the time I'm done, probably have 5000 all up in power steering, brakes and suspension..
(https://i.imgur.com/h0LzMlZ.jpg)
Did you go with Bedford drop,spindles or Holden ? If you have the camber sorted you could use Holden and change the ball joints. Could you post the instructions. Rod was pretty vague when I spoke to him. As well.
What did it cost you make or did you do it all yourself ?
Betweeen us all we have to be able to solve this issue. So many beddies want to,drop the front and still have good geometry. Who is going to design the kit ?
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Here's some pics of lower arm, and everything fitted (this was before I made the new upper arms):
(https://i.imgur.com/Cje67Cq.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/e9ZtPgK.jpg?1)
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I spoke to Roger last night and he said he sells the adapters for $950 + shipping , well worth it in my opinion cheers Merlin
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Awsome engineering there!
Love it
Any side photo,s of the van?
Standard and with the drop done.
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Here's a side photo after the spindles were installed, don't really have a good before pic.. drop was a bit over 2 inches. Definitely wouldn't want to go any lower as there is minimal ground clearance, especially spoiler on the front..
It was hard getting wheel clearance all round as the front wheels are so large. 15x8 with 245/60 tyres. I actually also moved the whole crossmember forward as the front wheels were not centred in the wheelwells and fouled at the rear.
(https://i.imgur.com/2RsOX95.jpg)
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Looks good mate.
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hmmmmm I don't know why I bother posting information here , you ask for someone to provide a solution to the front end problems and I provided a brilliant one that works flawlessly and what happens???? nothing !! no comments no interest just silence …. well you can lead a horse to water..... aye ???!!!
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So don't bother posting then? It's only the internet, no need to take it too seriously.
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Don't take it too hard Merlin, a lot of people only check the site infrequently. I found the discussion including your comments pretty interesting. A friend of mine wants to lower his front end at some point and I will pass on this thread, some good info.
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thanks..great info..keep up the good work
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Zeeman are you making adjustable upper control Armes for sale .
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Probably not, they would be too expensive I think, especially for such a small market.
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Hey Zeeman. The problem we have is Facebook doesn’t really work for posting and archiving infor like you presented and it seems to be the go to for daily updates. I think it is awesome what you have done and would love to know a couple of things. What Rose joints and where from, cost of materials only. What was the thread on the rose joints? What did you use for the main shaft.? Is it just bright steel? Every Beddie regardless of dropping at front would benifit from what you have made. What do you thing it owes you in fabrication hours ( leaving aside R&D time that is always the biggest part to be begin with) I am surprised that you don’t see a commercial opportunity. Now you have the prototype you can create your bending jigs and the rest looks fairly simple in terms of cutting threads in tube and welding plate for ball,joint. If you repeat the process on bottom a arm and use Holden ball joints you should be able to fit Holden drop spindles which are nearly $500 cheaper than the “ Bedford ones. I. Am really keen to follow this through. Thinking of getting a front cross member so I can start playing but seeing you are halfway there need to pick your brain first. Would love to give you a call to chat. PM me and we can. Exchange numbers. PS will put a post on Facebook group to get people to come and look
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Ps I spoke to the guy in NZ only a couple of months ago so you are way ahead of me having made them
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Hey some of us are still here....
A lot of people are on Facebook now....it seems more
Responsive and way easier to upload pictures
And chatting with others is just about instant on Facebook...
But it has it's downside too..doesn't archive things like this forum....
There seems to be a massive increase in Van's being rebilut, restored and back on the road...theres may be a demand for your efforts here.....
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Don't stress Merlin, Im sure like me there are people reading the posts who don't have any mechanical knowledge to comment, I'm stoked like others in the info you provided, I just dont have the capital, or know how to go any further.
And like Wendy said, this is still a very important tool for anyone building, restoring a Beddy, I used this site a lot chasing past info. :) :) :)