BUGA Community
Technical => Driveline => Topic started by: Chucky on April 27, 2016, 06:31:23 PM
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Hey Buga Crew!
I'm almost done installing power steering to my 78CF SWB with a 350 L98 chevy and I though that you would be interested in how I did it.
I had read almost all the power steering conversions I could find and most said use the P76 rack, or VF Transit rack. I tried the latter but with the SBC in situ the space was WAY too tight, so tight in fact that I had to remove the tow point, and even after massaging the oil pan, it still did not fit. I think we can take from this that the transit rack is good for a straight 6 beddy, or a holden V8 beddy, but not a SBC equipped beast ;-)
I checked my alternatives, scoured the wrecking yards and found that a VE Commodore rack is damn near perfect, compared to the transit for the following reasons:
1) Input shaft is already a cotter pin type and will fit the bedford yoke once you open the yoke up a smidge with a drill. The transit one is a splined shaft and requires you to purchase a second UJ.
2) Input shaft is much closer to the length/angle of the original so I only had to shorten the intermediate shaft a few inches. The transit one is about 5-6" longer than stock.
3) Tie rod pivot points sit on the diagonal line between the upper and lower control arm pivot so no bump steer, the transit is a touch too long.
4) Centre to Centre mounting holes are EXACTLY the same as the bedford, transit is nowhere near the same,
5) All hoses clear without modification, while the transit one need the upper directional hoses to be relocated to clear the harmonic balancer.
6) Replace Tie rods with "Eunos" rods off the shelf for a perfect fit to bedford specs, then another off the shelf tie rod end can be used (part# TBC), NO modifications so minimal cost. The Transit rack require the tie rods to be machined down and rethreaded.
7) Finally, the passenger side bracket is just a flat piece of 10mm steel, the Drive side bracket is two flat pieces of 10mm steel welded together......done! MUCH easier than a transit bracket.
8) They are bloody everywhere, so cheap as chips! mine cost $35.
Because space is limited for me, I will be running a Holden TS Astra electric power steering pump, mounted on the passenger side firewall (I have no heater box, because I have electric heaters in the cab) with two 1350mm hoses. I will post pictures soon, to clarify what i have mentioned here but to date the whole thing is coming in at around $350 installed DIY.
Regards,
Chucky.
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Sounds like a sensible conversion, look forward to seeing pics. Hey I need to update my heater so was wondering what heaters did you use???
Cheers
Noid
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Thanks for the info Chucky, i just got myself a transit rack last week but it sounds like the ve one is nearly built for a beddy nice work finding it, more food for thought
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Great info Chucky, thanks for the post. I had a Transit rack I was planning to use, but may have to reconsider! Cheers!
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yeah all good food for though, i eagerly await pics, i haven't finished my steering yet!
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now i think of it someone else i was talking to said the ve rack was a really good option. sounds cool:)
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Hey chucky looking forward to some pics of your sweet ride? 😎
The only rule on here is you have to post heaps of pictures, all the bugas love em 😉 hahahah
Hi Ben it was really nice to meet you and your new family in Vic at Easter..another beddy fan in the making ehehe
Also great to see you back online!😊
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I've gone down the same path as a steering guy said the VE had better turning.
Fitting was easy, yet to test as haven't wired up the engine yet.
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g day
im thinking of using the ve rack as well i have a transit 1 already havent made up its brackets yet
im running the LS1 its not fully wired up yet either
did some 1 make up your ve brackets & would they sell a set or could i get some measurements
cheers john
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Photos will be up this weekend, just waiting on a more powerful alternator for my astra pump.
sorry for the delay, but it is all in and working. Install was pretty simple, ended up using Eunos tie rods, and Rodeo Tie rod ends, so no custom modification required to the rack just off the shelf parts.
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Sorry for the lack of photos, I need to sort out a photobucket account of some kind. The whole PS system is in and working as of tonight. The final parts list was as follows
VE Rack with hard feeds to be cut down.
Eunos Tie Rods
Holden Rodeo Tie Rod Ends
CS130 Alternator
3M hose
TS Astra PS Pump w/hard feeds (I had the bracket modified for firewall mount)
VE Intermediate Steering Shaft (Rack end cut off and welded on to the the bedford shaft in place of the rag joint)
80A resettable fuse from EBAY
Large Terminal Block
10mm plate for the brackets
4 12mm High tensile bolts
Various welding/engineering
If you can weld and have decent metalworking skills/tools it is a solid weekends work, for about $600 if you plan ahead.
I'll try and put photos up soon....honest ;D
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how legal is the welding of the steering shafts ? i know my engineer wont have a bar of it, making it very hard to sort out my setup.
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It makes sense the engineer dosent like it.
Because imagine doing 80 or 100 kms an hour and the shaft snap?
Just picture what could and probably would happen?
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I had it done legitimately by an automotive engineering shop. It has been V cut, then sleeved, pinned, and welded. It'll last longer than the van lol.
If you look at modern intermediate shafts (like the VE) the u-joints are welded on.
Regards,
Chucky
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Thats cool,
Cant get better than that.
An engineer couldn't knock that back
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well that depends on the engineer, mine basically told me he will not pass anything thats welded .... but if yours does then theres nothing wrong with that....
as far as it breaking at speed, the thing that i don't understand is a road car engineer doesn't like it, but then almost all speedway cars and alot of drag racing cars have no issues passing welded steering connections, and in speedway they actually mandate a quick release steering wheel with a welded on spline!
and certainly i can safely say in speedway the steering cops a hell of alot more hard hits than anything on the street should even come close to.
i know it is what it is, but it just doesn't make much sense in my mind when anything else around the steering can be welded on, just not the steering shafts!
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(https://fbcdn-photos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xta1/v/t1.0-0/p206x206/2556_10207632877653148_5412668653440142880_n.jpg?oh=dde78a81233491a79b855d1e2c53c48b&oe=57C409FE&__gda__=1472578556_8def05e71f7a65dc77789f134b79eea0)
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12472648_10207632877893154_8443746842943105122_n.jpg?oh=f515b42aa3ae3ace4d92d507d114c2c1&oe=57C2A27F)
funny that you mention dirt track......I don't baby my beddie that much ;-)
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G'day Chucky
I'm thinking of using the ve rack, any chance of getting some info or part numbers for the eunos tie rods and the rodeo tie rod ends
Cheers Phil
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Hmmm, been in the industry for 40 + years. In that time it has always been illegal/unroadworthy to modify a steering or suspension component by heating, cutting, grinding or welding. (This includes cutting springs) And the real problem only arises when you are involved in a crash of some severity that has the police engineering people crawling over it. Parts from other vehicles (unmodified) are fine as are newly manufactured components that have the relevant engineering paperwork. Anything else, and you may be at risk, especially in court.
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I think the major mods on this conversion is the intermediate shaft and I have talked to the engineer that I will be using and he said if I sleeve and use taper pins he is happy, this is why I'm after some more info on the tie rods and ends so I can talk to him about these before I start
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I just checked my invoice and it lists the following:
P917R: Rack End Eunos, Ford, Mazda
TE5361: Rodeo Tie Rod End
As for the other comments on my intermediate shaft, yes a new one could be fabricated, should I do this? No, because my legitimate engineer has passed it, should you? ask your engineer and do what they say. Some engineers will pass mine, some wouldn't, some states would, some states wouldn't, I don't make those calls and neither do most of the people on here ;-)
now with that said and done, I took her for a good run today and the lock is a lot less but man it drives nice :D
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why has the lock changed ?
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Thanks Chucky for the info
I will be talking to the engineer I'll be using soon, another thing on the list to play with
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The lock changes because of the different pivot points and travel of the rack
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I have heard that there is a steering column that has an electric power steering unit all in one. I think the guys said its from a Hyundi of sorts - Does any one have any experience in this department? ,I recently had air con fitted, really good job, -Minus 1 degree C at the vent but the guy who did it reckons power steering isn't going to happen due to the limited space under there,He suggested the electric solution.
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i've heard of a few people using astra or mazda 2 electric steering columns, haven't had first hand experience though.
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I chose not to do the power assisted column, because I wanted a nice clean cab. It is an option though, even with the original rack but a bit too bulky a solution for me.
I did another 400km trip on the weekend, absolutely no problems I'm finally happy and ready to fit my sway bar now :-)
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you got an pics you can put up of your install ?
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I'm not on here that often but I will try to post pics sometime soon.