BUGA Community
Technical => Driveline => Topic started by: joshua on April 10, 2015, 04:49:03 PM
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Hey Guys,
I have been offered a 186 compressed engine in really good condition, I was thinking of changing over to a 202. What would you do?
What is better for:
Fuel
Noise
Power
Kind regards
Joshua
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186 are better on fuel and not the much less in power.
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Awesome!!!! thats what i wanted to hear!
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what do you mean by compressed
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High compression 186?
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o.k......put a 173 head on as well....red or blue...
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go a blue 202 . more torque than the red motors and the torque is more spreed out thought the rpm range. as standed they have HEI ignition , better breathing head. put some extrators on them and a 34 ADM WEBER carby is a good set up.. and be good on fuel .if you go too high in compression with todays fuel even with say 98 fuel you will end up with pinging or knoking problems.
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Hi marishka, Thats what the dude selling it said.. im a little confused now ;) will a blue 202 bolt straight in with no modifications?
What would the best in regards to fuel and low revs...
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Hi Joshua
A blue 202 will fit exactly as a red.
Only the carby sticks out more on passanger side.
U will need to put your red sump and oil pickup tube on the blue .
Im just about to do the same to my green/white poptop.
Cheers marty
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I have a blue/black head on my 186. The manifold has been modified so a standard 186 carb fits AND without modifying the engine cover. It is so tight that I have had to remove the insulation/soundproofing around the carby.... but it fits under the standard engine cover. ;D
Will let you know how it goes economy wise.... heading to WA from Adelaide, leaving on the 18th.. So you WA BUGA's - WATCH OUT!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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if you can get the 202 to breath properly it will be better than the 186 , we used to put big valve heads and hm headers on them with a holly 350 they went pretty well
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don't think 350 holley will fit under the engine cover...
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Excuse my ignorance- very new to owning a beddy...Haven't actually picked it up yet. Its got a red 202 i believe. So whats the difference between the red & blue motors? What about the 253? Just thinking in terms of upgrade later on...getting excited ;D
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blue motor has a counterweighted crank for better harmonics and apparently more torque, blue also has better conrods, and then it has a 12 port head which requires a different inlet manifold to the red motor, and came stock with electronic ignition.
253 is a holden V8, I can't give much info on it other than if you were going to the trouble I'd go to a 308 instead ? :)
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202 goes great ! especially if you add a turbo to the combo...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wp184xomS4
this was on her first run ...not even tuned up properly either...goes awesome now...and much cheaper than running a V8 even on Straight LPG...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLGZGjsxTcs
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that's not street racing there is it wendy ?? :P
I can vouch for turbo 202's although mine is not in a Bedford!
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Hi Wendyh what turbo did you use and how did you set up lpg with turbo. thanks. john
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Hi John sorry for the delay in getting back to you had the internet off for a week...telstra reckons they were doing an up grade....
anyway the Turbo is off a RB25 nissian skyline...goes real good..
nnnahhhhh i never do any street racing Sammy ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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We used one our older engines to mock up the turbo until it was ready to go into the van...
Ray made both inlet & Exhaust manifolds
well worth the effort...goes awesome now...especially up hills on the freeway to sydney..no slowing down or even changing back to forth...cruisers up hills in fifth gear if no knuckle head in front slows ya down ::)
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thanks Wendyh for taking the time to put up photos for me. where does the turbo gets it oil feed from. what lpg mixer did you use and did you have to change any thing with lpg to suit turbo. thanks john
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fogot to ask what boost your running and is it better on fuel. from what your said about not changing gears going up hill you have a lot more torque. thanks . john
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Hey happy to share the awesome work Ray has done on my awesome beddy ;D ;D ;D ;D
ok heres a video of its first time running with turbo fitted...nothing done to the LPG system.
Were running an Impco system which goes really well...boost is 7 PSI
The oil pick up comes from the oil pressure stitch gallery....as you can see in one of the pics we increased the sump capacity from 4 litrs to 9 litrs.
after the turbo was fitted it was like having a few more gears! And we dont have to change gears as quickly ... as she revs out more in each gear...a lot more responsive and yes more torque ;) ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wp184xomS4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLGZGjsxTcs
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Cool stuff 8) . I gather the 9 Ltrs sump is for oil cooling instead of a oil cooler nice and simple and tidy :D. am a bit puzzled why the intake manifold has intake tube welded to intake manifold instead of a bolt down intake tube. is it because you wanted a big intake tube to keep a good air flow or maybe the turbo psi would have blown out the base gasket where intake tube bolts down where carby was? thanks . john
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i have also seen that some do the super charger as well to the red 202.
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its actually a blue motor head and using the associated inlet manifold which normally has a rectangular fitting for the carby, on the side facing you in the picture is normally an EGR valve fitting which has been cut off and smoothed over, I've heard that fouls the engine cover!
the size of the pipe I'd suggest is the same size as the throttle body. and welding v's a flange, probably easier to weld if you can weld alloy ....
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Cool stuff 8) . I gather the 9 Ltrs sump is for oil cooling instead of a oil cooler nice and simple and tidy :D. am a bit puzzled why the intake manifold has intake tube welded to intake manifold instead of a bolt down intake tube. is it because you wanted a big intake tube to keep a good air flow or maybe the turbo psi would have blown out the base gasket where intake tube bolts down where carby was? thanks . john
Hi John
It was Just a personal choice Ray made, it could be bolted. Yes good air flow is essential...its the same size as the throttle body... 65mm
Cheers Wendy
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Hi Wendy. hate to be a pest but any chance of some photo of turbo and lpg all hooked up. and to pick you brain for more info did yous have to put a thicker head gasket or lower compression or change pistons . or yous just bolted it all up and got 7 psi . thanks john
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Hi John
here is a link to a post i put on a while back...now that the turbo is is its really hard to see now from above as it sits down beside the engine on the passengers side
i have added some photos if you can work out what ur looking at your doing well...lots of pipes above....see link for pics of set up while on a n old engine
http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?topic=7789.0
If you want to chat to Ray give us a call he is only to happy to help out.
Cheers Wendy & Ray 02 49731605
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Hi John, to answer some of your questions.... firstly compression, would depend if its been increased or not and what fuel you plan to run, but I would say on a stock motor with 7-8psi you'd probably be able to leave it alone, and could always use boost activated water/methanol injection if you wanted to help it...
as for what pistons, im not sure what the stock pistons can handle but I have been running 21psi boost (with methanol fuel) on ACL Duralite pistons on my 202 for a few years now and they are holding up well! but to run that sort of compression on petrol, you'd certainly want decent pistons, decompressed motor and an intercooler.
I can't speak much for LPG other than it allows some more timing than petrol, so on that basis I'd say a higher compression ratio with lpg would probably be ok than with petrol.
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hi John I recoed the motor 50,000 klm ago and it has done 10,000 klm with the turbo on it
I fitted standard shallow dish pistons to it they were only cheap ones and it has a standard
blue 202 head on it with hard exhaust inserts and valves, comp ratio is about 9 to1
there is no decomp spacer,the dissy shaft is locked and it has a boost retard diaphram fitted to the dissy,
the timing is 28 degrees with 8 degrees retard at 8psi boost and doesnt detonate
if you need any more info give us a ring cheers Ray
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Thanks Wendyh and Sammy for all the info and photos its great stuff :D. some think that may interest yous i found on the web is a continuous water injection system . this system lets you have water injection when you want for long periods with out burning water pump out. it be great for cooling turbo boosted air , high compression engines, and advance timing for power and fuel cost saving. google - autospeed water injection system, part 1 . thanks. john
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yeah that's a good read :)
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Hey Ray thanks for all the info too mate ;D .
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A idear of mine was to have continuous water injection and be able to ajust timing manually to make the most of advance timing for power and fuel saving which with water injection to stop pre detonation or pining . was thinking of a push and pull rod in cab to a lever off the side of the distributor . have the distributor lock down bolt just loose enough to be able to move. i have see this ajustable distributor set up on duel fuel to ajust timing from petrol to LPG and advance timing to suit LPG. if more water was need you could have a 2 or 3 spray nozzle switch in cab to spray nozzle solenoids to suit work load of engine .