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Technical => Driveline => Topic started by: joshua on April 10, 2015, 04:49:03 PM

Title: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: joshua on April 10, 2015, 04:49:03 PM
Hey Guys,

I have been offered a 186 compressed engine in really good condition, I was thinking of changing over to a 202. What would you do?

What is better for:
Fuel
Noise
Power

Kind regards


Joshua
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: LS120 on April 10, 2015, 07:26:25 PM
186 are better on fuel and not the much less in power.
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: joshua on April 11, 2015, 01:02:14 PM
Awesome!!!! thats what i wanted to hear!
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: vintageholden on April 11, 2015, 01:16:18 PM
what do you mean by compressed
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: Marishka on April 11, 2015, 01:39:09 PM
High compression 186?
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: vintageholden on April 11, 2015, 06:33:52 PM
o.k......put a 173 head on as well....red or blue...
Title: blue 202
Post by: johnxb351 on April 12, 2015, 12:14:32 AM
go a blue 202 . more torque than the red motors and  the torque  is more spreed out thought the rpm range.  as standed they have HEI ignition , better breathing head. put some extrators on them and a 34 ADM WEBER carby  is a good set up..  and be good on fuel .if you go too high in compression  with todays fuel even with say 98 fuel  you will end up with pinging or knoking problems.
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: joshua on April 12, 2015, 11:33:07 AM
Hi marishka, Thats what the dude selling it said.. im a little confused now ;) will a blue 202 bolt straight in with no modifications?

What would the best in regards to fuel and low revs...
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: Marishka on April 12, 2015, 04:18:39 PM
Hi Joshua
A blue 202 will fit exactly as a red.
Only the carby sticks out more on passanger side.
U will need to put your red sump and oil pickup tube on the blue .
Im just about to do the same to my green/white poptop.
Cheers marty
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: rumax on April 12, 2015, 07:00:31 PM
I have a blue/black head on my 186. The manifold has been modified so a standard 186 carb fits AND without modifying the engine cover. It is so tight that I have had to remove the insulation/soundproofing around the carby.... but it fits under the standard engine cover.  ;D

Will let you know how it goes economy wise.... heading to WA from Adelaide, leaving on the 18th.. So you WA BUGA's - WATCH OUT!

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: johnb44 on April 15, 2015, 05:53:21 PM
if you can get the 202 to breath properly it will be better than the 186 , we used to put big valve heads and  hm headers on them with a holly 350 they went pretty well
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: vintageholden on April 18, 2015, 03:48:18 PM
don't think 350 holley will fit under the engine cover...
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: Strangy21 on June 01, 2015, 02:15:26 PM
Excuse my ignorance- very new to owning a beddy...Haven't actually picked it up yet. Its got a red 202 i believe. So whats the difference between the red & blue motors? What about the 253? Just thinking in terms of upgrade later on...getting excited ;D
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: Sammy on June 01, 2015, 03:42:14 PM
blue motor has a counterweighted crank for better harmonics and apparently more torque, blue also has better conrods, and then it has a 12 port head which requires a different inlet manifold to the red motor, and came stock with electronic ignition.

253 is a holden V8, I can't give much info on it other than if you were going to the trouble I'd go to a 308 instead ? :)
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: wendyh on June 01, 2015, 08:14:26 PM
202 goes great ! especially if you add a turbo to the combo...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wp184xomS4

this was on her first run ...not even tuned up properly either...goes awesome now...and much cheaper than running a V8 even on Straight LPG...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLGZGjsxTcs
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: Sammy on June 01, 2015, 09:01:38 PM
that's not street racing there is it wendy ?? :P

I can vouch for turbo 202's although mine is not in a Bedford!
Title: turbo and lpg
Post by: johnxb351 on June 02, 2015, 07:03:17 AM
 Hi Wendyh   what turbo did you use  and how did you set up lpg with turbo. thanks. john
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: wendyh on June 06, 2015, 12:48:27 PM
Hi John sorry for the delay in getting back to you had the internet off for a week...telstra reckons they were doing an up grade....
anyway the Turbo is off a RB25 nissian skyline...goes real good..

nnnahhhhh i never do any street racing  Sammy  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: wendyh on June 06, 2015, 12:54:55 PM
We used one our older engines to mock up the turbo until it was ready to go into the van...
Ray made both inlet & Exhaust manifolds

well worth the effort...goes awesome now...especially up hills on the freeway to sydney..no slowing down or even changing back to forth...cruisers up hills in fifth gear if no knuckle head in front slows ya down  ::)

Title: turbo and lpg
Post by: johnxb351 on June 06, 2015, 02:42:09 PM
 thanks Wendyh for taking the time to put up photos for me.  where does the turbo gets  it oil feed from.  what lpg mixer did you use and did you have to change any thing with lpg to suit turbo. thanks john
Title: turbo and lpg
Post by: johnxb351 on June 06, 2015, 03:42:46 PM
 fogot to ask what boost your running and is it better on fuel. from what your said about not changing gears going up hill you have a lot more torque. thanks . john
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: wendyh on June 06, 2015, 07:32:41 PM
Hey happy to share the awesome work Ray has done on my awesome beddy  ;D ;D ;D ;D
ok heres a video of its first time running  with turbo fitted...nothing done to the LPG system.
Were running an Impco system which goes really well...boost is 7 PSI
The oil pick up comes from the oil pressure stitch gallery....as you can see in one of the pics we increased the sump capacity from 4 litrs to 9 litrs.
after the turbo was fitted it was like having a few more gears! And we dont have to change gears as quickly ... as she revs out more in each gear...a lot more responsive and yes more torque  ;) ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wp184xomS4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLGZGjsxTcs
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: johnxb351 on June 06, 2015, 09:23:44 PM
Cool  stuff  8) . I gather the 9 Ltrs  sump  is for oil cooling instead of a oil cooler nice and simple and tidy :D.   am a bit puzzled why the intake manifold has intake tube welded to intake manifold instead of a bolt down intake tube.  is it because you wanted a big intake tube to keep a good air flow or maybe the turbo psi would have blown out the  base gasket where intake tube bolts down where carby was?  thanks . john
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: LS120 on June 08, 2015, 06:44:46 PM
i have also seen that some do the super charger as well to the red 202.
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: Sammy on June 08, 2015, 07:06:22 PM
its actually a blue motor head and using the associated inlet manifold which normally has a rectangular fitting for the carby, on the side facing you in the picture is normally an EGR valve fitting which has been cut off and smoothed over, I've heard that fouls the engine cover!

the size of the pipe I'd suggest is the same size as the throttle body. and welding v's a flange, probably easier to weld if you can weld alloy ....
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: wendyh on June 08, 2015, 07:29:07 PM
Cool  stuff  8) . I gather the 9 Ltrs  sump  is for oil cooling instead of a oil cooler nice and simple and tidy :D.   am a bit puzzled why the intake manifold has intake tube welded to intake manifold instead of a bolt down intake tube.  is it because you wanted a big intake tube to keep a good air flow or maybe the turbo psi would have blown out the  base gasket where intake tube bolts down where carby was?  thanks . john

Hi John
It was Just a personal choice Ray made, it could be bolted. Yes good air flow is essential...its the same size as the throttle body... 65mm
Cheers Wendy
Title: turbo and lpg
Post by: johnxb351 on June 10, 2015, 07:59:15 PM
Hi Wendy.  hate to be a pest but any chance of some photo of turbo and lpg all hooked up. and to pick you brain for more info  did yous have to put a thicker head gasket or lower  compression or change   pistons .  or yous just bolted it all up and got 7 psi  . thanks john
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: wendyh on June 11, 2015, 10:53:06 AM
Hi John
here is a link to a post i put on a while back...now that the turbo is is its really hard to see now from above as it sits down beside the engine on the passengers side

i have added some photos if you can work out what ur looking at your doing well...lots of pipes above....see link for pics of set up while on a n old engine

http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?topic=7789.0

If you want to chat to Ray give us a call he is only to happy to help out.
Cheers Wendy & Ray 02 49731605
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: Sammy on June 11, 2015, 02:24:54 PM
Hi John, to answer some of your questions.... firstly compression, would depend if its been increased or not and what fuel you plan to run, but I would say on a stock motor with 7-8psi you'd probably be able to leave it alone, and could always use boost activated water/methanol injection if you wanted to help it...

as for what pistons, im not sure what the stock pistons can handle but I have been running 21psi boost (with methanol fuel) on ACL Duralite pistons on my 202 for a few years now and they are holding up well! but to run that sort of compression on petrol, you'd certainly want decent pistons, decompressed motor and an intercooler.

I can't speak much for LPG other than it allows some more timing than petrol, so on that basis I'd say a higher compression ratio with lpg would probably be ok than with petrol.
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: wendyh on June 11, 2015, 05:09:33 PM
hi John I recoed the motor 50,000 klm ago and it has done 10,000 klm with the turbo on it
I fitted standard shallow dish pistons to it they were only cheap ones and it has a standard
blue 202 head on it with hard exhaust inserts and valves, comp ratio is about 9 to1
there is no decomp spacer,the dissy shaft is locked and it has a boost retard diaphram fitted to the dissy,
the timing is 28 degrees with 8 degrees retard at 8psi boost and doesnt detonate
if you need any more info give us a ring cheers Ray
Title: WATER INJECTION
Post by: johnxb351 on June 12, 2015, 11:50:44 AM
 Thanks Wendyh and Sammy  for all the info and photos its  great stuff :D.  some think that may interest yous i found on the web  is a continuous water injection system .  this system lets you have water injection when you want for long periods with out burning water pump out.   it be great for cooling turbo  boosted air  ,  high compression engines, and advance timing for power and fuel cost saving. google -  autospeed water injection system, part 1    . thanks. john
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: Sammy on June 12, 2015, 12:32:00 PM
yeah that's a good read :)
Title: Re: 186 compressed or 202?
Post by: johnxb351 on June 12, 2015, 12:37:10 PM
Hey Ray  thanks for all the info  too mate ;D .
Title: MANUALLY AJUST TIMING WITH WATER INJECTION
Post by: johnxb351 on June 12, 2015, 08:17:19 PM
 A idear of mine was to have continuous water injection and be able to ajust  timing manually to make the most of advance timing for power and fuel saving which  with water injection  to stop pre detonation or pining . was thinking of a push and pull rod in cab  to a lever off the side of the  distributor . have the distributor lock down bolt just loose enough to be able to move.  i have see this  ajustable distributor set up on  duel fuel to ajust timing from  petrol to LPG and advance timing to suit LPG.   if more water was need you could have a 2 or 3  spray nozzle switch in cab to spray nozzle solenoids to suit work load of engine .
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