BUGA Community
Technical => Electrics, Audio and Security => Topic started by: Sweet Shock on May 28, 2013, 09:03:56 PM
-
Hi I got electronic ignition fitted today by an auto lec and the problem is, It’s a bugger to start after being left for 30 mins. When you get it started it starts no problem everytime but it takes atleast 30 40 cranks to start. Anyone got any ideas. I plan to take it back tommroe. Auto lec has a good reputation. Thanks Pete
-
Hi Pete has he got a full 12 volts to the coil all the time & is it the proper coil to suit
-
Coil is a Bosch hec 716 and I dont no what he has done
-
If he hasn't already, get him to use the resister coil+ as the switch wire for a Relay. Then send full 12V to the relay as the +, this way it'll crank with 12V..
Reid is right on the money
-
Is it a new elec dissy or old one?
I fitted a new elec dissy and coil from a seller off ebay
And never looked back.
The Old elec dissy had excessive sideway shaft play and it played up
Like similar to what your going through.
Elec dissy,s require the bosh716 coil as you stated.
Is there any dramas with your key ignition switch?
Try putting a live 12v wire to the + on the coil
And see if it starts easier, if it does it might be your key ignition switch giving you greaf.
-
Its a new dizzy and my concern is that they new that it was not starting properly and they still let me take it, they had the van for over 24hrs. (Was only gonna take an hour) Also the reason I got them to do it is because it took 9 cranks to start on gas anytime I started it for the first time then it was fine for the rest of the day. Petrol was never a problem but now It took me 5 mins of cranking in coles carpark last night. If they couldn’t fix it in 12 hrs then what chance have they got considering this is there field of expertise thanx Pete
-
If it's on gas do you have it fitted with a purge button they can be a bitch to start in cold weather I uste to start my Coaster on petrol & run it till it got warm then switch to gas no problems starting when hot & in my escort which was streight gas we fitted a purge button which held the sollonids open longer for starting Maby thats the problem & not the ignition Cheers Reid
-
Just asked the auto lec and they have no idea why it wont start, so it looks like ill have to go back to points.
-
could it be the ballast resistor [if it still has one] i know when mine started to go it took ages for the thing to start.
-
Jeff McPherson Auto Electrical is my car sparky of choice. I've been in the trade for nearly 40 years and he is my go to guy when electrical problems beat me.
The fact that it was hard to start on LPG before the dissy is an issue to resolve first. Weak spark and LPG are not good combinations, usually lead to backfires etc. Put a spark plug in one of the leads and ground it. Check the strength of the spark when in this no-start scenario. Should be a nice fat blue one. What this will establish is whether the coil is giving proper output. LPG needs a good spark to burn. If it is fine, you will need to look at the LPG system or maybe timing.
There is a simple starting point for you. (no pun intended)
Have fun!
-
Ive been going to Franks auto lec and he doesn’t sound confident possible blaming the lack of vacuum and the gas is new and going like a dream. The reason I got electronic was because it started on gas every 9th crank without fail but only when you started it the first time in 24 hrs I kept getting a flat battery and relised the battery wasn’t charging. It has never charge ever since Ive had it (about 4 yrs) The reason it wasn’t charging was because the alt light on the dash was disconnected which Frank fixed. To get electronic ignition, fix oil light, and alt light $ 692. You be the judge.
This is my 3 rd battery and I have alwaysed used the home charger to charge battery. I have only been driving my bed everyday for the past 2 weeks because my other car is getting another motor. When I started using the headlights the battery went flat so this is how I relised there was a problem. The only time the bed has let me down is because a flat battery problem, so over the years I got starter fixed, alternater fixed and batterys. Don’t you think when they put a new alternator in they would of relised it wasn’t charging ? Anyhow I m not planning on taking it back and wont ever go there again because there not helpful and say the electronic ignition is good (It has great spark) It proberly is good but the fact is its not even close to starting right
There is defentliy something wrong and only a person who is familiar with this set up would have the answer. Ive spent a lot of money there with 3 cars over the past few years I would expect better.
Ive never heard of Jeff McPherson Auto Electrical
Thanx Pete
PS I thought electronic would be better than points ?
-
Balast resisters cut your ignition voltage down
From 12v to maybe 9v or less.
Electric distributers and coils require the full 12 v to operate
Properly. So if you are using a balast resister id rip it out and throw it to the £€¥% house
Balast resisters are for points distributers to cut the voltage down so the points last longer
(dont burn out) as quickly.
So when running electric distributers no need for balast resisters.
-
Another very important point is that your air cleaner tube is sealed air tight.
As the gas injector (usually fitted half way along the air cleaner to carby tube) relies on the vacume of the air being sucked into the carby to bring the gas into the carby for combustion
If the system isnt air tight it (especially the tube tight to the top of the carby) it wont operate 100% and will take a long time to finally start.
Voltage input and an air tight ( air cleaner to carby tube) are 2 of a few
Things that could cause hard to start problems.
Is the gas injector delivering enough gas?
-
So do I take the balast resister out and join the wires together
-
My ballast resister only has one wire going to it Im pretty sure there were two.
-
Sounds like he has already disconected it
If there is only 1 wire to it now?
He should have conected the 12v feed wire to the new coil?
Get someone to crank over your motor and check the 12v coil feed
Wire for constant 12volts.
To iron out it being a feed voltage problem.
Yeah throw the balast resister away unless you are
Going to go back to points.
I never use balast resisters, i just change to a new set of
Points ( when the old ones burn out ) if im running points.
All our vehicles are elec ignition now, even the 2 1963 wolseleys,
I keep a reconditioned points destributer under the pasangers seat just in case
The electric distributer has heart failure 1 day,
So im not stranded on the side of the road miles from home.
Because you just never know when something mightgo
Wrong with anew electric distributer,
Might never happen, but if it ever does im going to
Be ok, :)
-
Ill have a look tommroe. Ive been flat out so Ill have a look to see what he has done. thanx
-
No worries, hope you work it out ok,
Cheers
-
So do I thanx
-
When starting it goes from 12.8 v to 10 v then to 13.5 v. Hows that sound ?
-
To go back to points do I connect the white wire new Coil + back to the old coil and The coil – back to old coil then put old dizzy back in. Where does the ballast resistor go. thanx
-
Sounds like there is still resistance in there.
Get yourself a 12V Relay, find a ground for pin 85. Remove the current coil+ and use as pin 86, get a full 12V wire direct from the battery or similar and connect it to pin 30, then connect pin 87 to the + side of the coil.
This will give you the full 12V required.
*NOTE* some Relays operate different to others, I know because I've been caught out before. The best way to ensure it is operating as you want, connect the ground wire to 85, then get a 12V wire and touch the 86 pin, if you dont feel it click touch the 30 pin. Whichever pin makes the relay operate is the switch pin. You need to ensure the coil + you have currently is the wire you use to operate the switch on the relay, otherwise you'll be doing alot of work only to be stuck with the same issue.
With the gas system, what sort of mixer do you have? You may need a primer setup to help with cold starts. Essentially it's a fuel lock off that you connect to the appropriate port on your convertor, then you run a vacuum hose from the lock off to your gas mixer, when you crank it the mixer is supplied a shot of gas so it starts easier.
I have the primer vacuum line feeding direct to my petrol carby via a vacuum port that sees full manifold vacuum rather than ported or timed vacuum.
I have the primer activated by only being supplied power to a relay when the GAS/PETROL switch is set to gas, then when cranking the motor the starter triggers the primer to change state allowing the gas to flow direct. My van starts quickly always, since installing the primer.
As was said tho, if there is any form of vacuum leaks between the motor and the gas carb, many strange occurrences are possible
-
Ill give that ago tommroe, My gas is the older type with the trunk and cable. thanx Pete
-
A funny thing happened today. My van started on gas first kick and has been all day. I havent had time to put the relay in yet. Ill be damned
-
Yes, but as long as it does it the next and the next and so on ;)
-
My vans starting every 4 to 5 kicks now so its going great. Very happy whith electronic ignition I havent done anything to it. It just needed a few days to settle down I guess
-
Haha I'm glad to hear its working well, but electrics shouldn't need time to 'settle down'
-
Haha I'm glad to hear its working well, but electrics shouldn't need time to 'settle down'
On a Bedford they do ;)
-
Sounds like the battery might have been half charged.(thus hard to start
As elec ignition requires full 12vpower )
Its a nightmare tryinf to start an elec ignition vehicle on a 1/2 or 3/4 charged battery,
Now the van has been run frequently its fully charged. (thus easy starting).
-
No It wasnt the battery. Maybe carbon build up. But for some reason it just came good by it self. Im sure theres some scienctific reason or god did it.
-
I had nothing to do with it (god reference) ;D
Seriously, LPG has it's own issues... had a commodore that backfired once and ran like crap for ages, then cleared itself and ran sweet as. Thought at the time it may have something to do with the gas itself- different mixture of propane/butane? Don't know and am not an expert.
-
Hahaha,
gods a figment of everyones imagination.