BUGA Community
Technical => Driveline => Disk Brakes => Topic started by: shaginwagin on March 04, 2012, 07:46:34 PM
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I have finally started the addition of VN disc brakes to the standard bedford diff, ;D ( I am going to get the diff ratio changed to suit the V6 and 4 speed auto) :) I have the complete VN diff. So far the bracket for the handbrake shoes and disc calipre, the 4 bolt holes attaching the bracket to the diff have been welded up and ground smooth and will be redrilled to suit bedford pattern. It is also necessary cut out the the centre of the bedford backing plate as this will have to be used when the bedford axle is put back together. Pics are in my gallery ( on page 6 of the gallery) will have further update soon.
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Finally got it all typed up , as there are some 13 pics i will put them in my gallery (page 6)
VN disc brake on standard Bedford diff (long wheel base single wheel ) I have the complete VN doner car so V6 motor/gear box and all the electrics will be transplanted This is a prototype and wooden spacers/some metal brackets will be refined and upgraded. To start with you need to remove the backing plate from the bedford diff, cut the centre out of the plate so that you end up with a sort of spacer, cut it the same size as the outside of the diff housing pics 1 and 2.
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=40403&g2_serialNumber=2)
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=40408&g2_serialNumber=2)
obviously do both sides at the same time unless you want to practice on one side then do the other side. Before removing the the vn backing plate measure the distance between the front face of the backing plate and the front face of the axle where the disc fits pic 3 so that when you later make the spacers they are the correct thickness to make the calipre and rotar operate correctly.
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=40413&g2_serialNumber=2)
Next take the backing plate from the vn ( it is the part that holds the brake calipre and the hand brake shoe components) mark the plates drivers /passenger side, this is necessary for later on.. weld up the 4 bolt holes and grind the weld flat both inside and outside. Pic 4,5 and 6.
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=40418&g2_serialNumber=2)
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=40423&g2_serialNumber=2)
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=40428&g2_serialNumber=2)
Now using the cut down bedford backing plate,place this over the vn backing plate(the flat section will be on or over the slot for the hand brake mechanism vn). Mark the new 4 bolt holes to suit the bedford pattern. This may be a bit fiddley, should have the centre circles overlapping about 3 to 4 mm. And the new top bolt holes will just touch holes you previously welded up It is important to have the holes in the correct position. Sorry I didn”t take a pic of this.
Next part is to cut the backing plate into 2 pieces so that it will fit over the axle between the bearing securing cover and the end of the axle. Pic 7.
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=40433&g2_serialNumber=2)
now this cut is a bit flexable, and is offset towards the top of the plate. Having said that I made the cut about half way between the top bolt hole and the hole that locates the pin for the brake shoes. Pic 9.
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=40443&g2_serialNumber=2)
mark the line for the cut, BEFORE YOU MAKE THE CUT you need to drill and tap a hole ( I used a 5mm bolt) each side of the cut and attach a small plate to keep the backing plate circular pic 8.
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=40438&g2_serialNumber=2)
this small plate can be removed and the backing plate cut into 2 pieces.
Now working on the drivers side of the bedford diff use the passenger side vn backing plate and bolt it to the diff housing (need longer bolts) pic 10
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=40448&g2_serialNumber=2)
also have to bolt on the small plate over the 2 joins in the backing plate( the slot in the backing plate will then be clear of the diff housing (flat part of diff housing thats why I changed passenger and drivers side backing plates over ) so the hand brake mechanism continues to be operational pic 11.
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=40453&g2_serialNumber=2)
Measure the distance between the face of the backing plate and the face of the axle and make spacer blocks the difference between the 1st measurement you made of the vn (pic 3) and the one you now have on the bedford it will be about 10 to 12 mm. Pic 12
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=40458&g2_serialNumber=2)
(wooden spacer can be trimmed and shaped to fit then when you have the correct size make your steel spacer to the finished size pic 13)
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=40463&g2_serialNumber=2)
With the backing plate and the two small plates attached to the backing plate, the temporary spacers the fun bit starts with fitting the handbrake shoes. There isn't much room but it does fit. The brake shoe may just catch on the lower bolts but with the slightly shorter correct size bolts it should clear. Pic 14
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=40468&g2_serialNumber=2)
The caliper and the splash plate can be attached for a dry run see what it looks like. The bedford axle will need to be machined down for the rotar to fit and the vn stud pattern drilled. I will add the pics for this when I get this part done. The calipre will be to the rear of the axle and the handbrake mechanism is now at the top of the axle (instead of the bottom on the vn) and as a result of changing passenger and driver sides the handbrake operates correctly pic 15.
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=40473&g2_serialNumber=2)
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=40478&g2_serialNumber=2)
I hope that this is helpful and of some interest to all.
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Julian
Hope you don't mind, I've edited your post to add the pictures.
Warren
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Thanks Warren I just wasn't sure how to put the pics in the thread. I was hoping someone might help :-) Julian
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Update on the upgrade.
:( :( Went to brother's (fitter and turner)at the weekend to work on axles turned them down to suit the VN disc but unfortunately had to take quite a bit off the axle flange, and almost all of the centre locating spigate ( think thats the right word) decided that there was not enough meat on the axle flange together with the remaining half bedford stud bolt hole to drill the holes for VN wheel studs plus unable to have studs fitting flush because of the webb on the back of the axle flange.
This is not an insurmountable problem going to check with local diff man about new axles to be made up. :) :)
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gee thats a bummer shagginwagon
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Dont know why you dont just widen the VN diff TOO EASY & it's got the correct diff ratio too
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Hey Julian, just checking to see if you got my email, if not i will post it here for you.
george
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Hi George been having trouble with computer its just about time to throw it away and get a new one just checked but no sign of email
I have been using another computer in the house when its available, or the you bute mobile phone.... Wouldn't hurt to put info on here then others will know what to do about axels...
Thanks. Julian
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Hey Julian, yep computers are like beddies, fantastic when they a working fine, dam if you dont miss them when they are playing up. lol. ;D ;D :o :o :o
Ok, for the rear disc brakes we bought a set of EA Falcon rear brakes from the wrecker to start with, and this is the truth, the only real modification we had to make was to the backing plate. 2 of the holes were out so we drilled 2 new ones, and it bolted straight up. We also had to cut the centre out of the drum brake cover thingy majig to use as a spacer between the axel and the backing plate. In all honesty, the rear brakes were the easiest modification of all the custom mods we did. Once we had the brakes fitted we just bought a new set over the counter. BEST part, to be able to buy parts new over the counter for a beddy after almost 40yrs. Hope this helps Julian. Have a look in my album, i think i have pics of each step in there, if not let me know and i will grab pics from my old computer and post them here.
george.
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So George does that mean you have ford stud pattern wheels on your Van ?
Warren
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Hey Warren, no mate i bought a set of blank rotors and had them drilled out to a HQ stud pattern. The front is also HQ disc brakes. The rotors were the only thing not ford, just the backing plate, callipers and pads. I am sure i have pics of the drum cover that we cut up to use as a spacer between the axel and backing plate. I will look and get the pics and post.
george.
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Hi George, The brakes and the caliper I have got them worked out.. :) The rotor will not fit over the end of the axle, had to turn it down to fit inside the rotor. Had to turn it down that much that there was only half of the Bedford stud holes left :'( The only thing I can think of is that the diff I have is out if a long wheel base single wheel model 97500 and the size of the axles are different????
Did the HQ rotor fit straight over the axle then.
Julian
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There are differant size stub axles
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Hi Julian, my mechanic determined that my stud pattern was HQ all round, and when he bought the rotors blank, he told the engineering firm he got them from he wanted a HQ pattern drilled. When he turned up with them they went straight on, no hassell.
Having said that, to this day we still do not know what sort of diff is in my van, while it was on the hoist he went over every millimeter of it and he could not find anything to identify it, it is a clean skin. [/color] :o :o
We bought a HQ kit for the front, and i can tell you now, we had more problems with that then we did the back, so luck and experience was on our side with back brakes. Good luck Julan, sounds like yours is going to fight you all the way.
george
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hey george post a photo of your diff housing. someone will know what your diff is
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there should be casting numbers on it somewhere george....
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hey george post a photo of your diff housing. someone will know what your diff is
[/quote
Ray reckons it could be a chevy impala :)
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I will dig up some pics and post for you.
george
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hey george post a photo of your diff housing. someone will know what your diff is
[/quote
Ray reckons it could be a chevy impala Smiley
gee rays good to know without a pic!
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the pics were posted on the side under recent post list
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oh:)
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Hey guys, well here it is, the pics of my diff, good luck identifying it, my mechanic seemed to think it is a ford diff, because there are no markings on it, who knows.
george.
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Hey Julian, this where we cut the spacer from, the red drum thingy, we cut the center out with the stud holes and used it between the axel and backing plate, perfect thickness.
george
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Thanks George
The front brakes are no problem have to alter the HQ calipre template for the VN calipre they are different but easy enough ::) The rears
are now under control, rang the difff man that is going to change the ratio and he has a number of different size axles and he has some that will fit. :) cost about $200 each. Just have to work a bit longer for some more funds, lol.... Might see if I can get a short wheel base axle and see if there is a major or minor difference in the size of the end of the axle. I'm pretty sure the work Ive done so far for the disc brakes will still fit the short wheel base as well :) :)
Julian
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would i be right in assuming, due to the inspection plate on the back, it is a salisbury diff ??? ??? ???
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its out of an early ford, offset type falcon thev used 2 diffs and put both the long tubes on the housing.
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borg wagner.. could be out of a ford, or a valiant or anything really.
here are some photos. of 3 different ones, 2 in beddies and one that came from a beddie.
does it have bedford axels/housings or is it still standard or like what craig said?
lots of beddies have borg wagners in them, must have been a good conversion and pobably still is a good option.
ben
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Hey ben, yeah if it is a conversion, it was a good one. I use to drive it to work everyday back in the late 90s, b4 the crash, and i can tell you this, it used to cruise along real smooth on the freeways. It was a dream to drive. I may have a way of getting the van started again, just need to get rid of some bills and i may have a contact to try and finish the van off. As for getting it done b4 the nats next year that may be a stretch, but i will be there all the same.
george