BUGA Community
Technical => Driveline => Topic started by: willo on June 28, 2011, 11:42:59 AM
-
Hi all,
I have just got the motorhome back on the road after 18 years of being parked. It is a red 202 with a Traumatic and a 5.22:1 diff. Motor is pretty fresh and has done 8k only. (Paperwork in camper when i bought it) ;D It runs OK and does all it should do really given that it is nearly 3 tonne but I am weighing up an engine swap down the track to enable it to cruise at 90k a bit easier. :D
I am wondering what fits into the current engine bay (if that is what we call it) without cutting into the floor and engine cover to make it fit. Maybe a falcon 6 (AU or BA???) or some other 6 cyl or 8 cyl if I can get it low down. I am thinking an overdrive gearbox would be handy as well so the diff ratio doesn't have to be changed as well ;D (I've still got to run the dual wheels for weight requirements)
Has anyone seen an engine transplant that did not require major surgery to the floor and cover? I can now walk through to the back from the driver's seat and if I chop things around too much this would become difficult.
Cheers
Neil
(on the road again... Apologies to Willy Neilson :D)
-
An AU or BA would require some major cutting. The engine is quite tall and longer than the 202 and the manifold on the LH side takes up a lot of room. I looked at that option before settling on the V6. I would say any engine transplant worth the effort is going to require chopping of some sort.
An earlier model of Falcon engine with a carby setup would reduce the amount you had to chop out of the LH side but you're still going to be cutting and you'd lose the benefit of the fuel injection.
-
Jezzas 5.22 ratio in the diff bloody hell thats tall.
If the 202 is fresh I would look to fitting a later auto that would give you overdrive, and possibly up the ratio a bit to around 3.5 - 4.0
Warren
-
An engineer I was talking to about engine swaps surgested a Chrisler Valliant Hemy 6 265 cu ins would be an ideal swap useing the tourk flite auto Carby & exaust is on the same side as 202 holden Probably still have to cut a bit out off floor because it would be longer Wouldnt have to cut floor on steering side but a little on pass side & prob modify engine cover Unless you could finde a OD gearbox to fit you would need a diff change but motor would have plenty of grunt Cheers Reid
-
I have seen on the net, you can get a bellhousing to fit the T700 auto to the 202, this would give you the overdrive you want, I have a Overdrive Trimatic behind mine but are real hard to find, and maybe only in NZ. If you use the overdrive you can leave the 5.22 for the low down power you need.............. Yes as Restoreid said, the Valliant would be a good option, have seen this done before with Know cutting. engine mounts moved forward and keeped low, elec fan etc.......
-
Anybody got any info or photos of 265 swap
-
what about a 3 litre vl or skyline donk
-
Consider the Ford 250 crossflow six as well. A cheap motor that can easily be hotted up to produce the power you need.
-
Remember this is a full size LWB motorhome fully loaded probably weighs close to 3 tone anything under 4/5 lieters is not going to cut it Your 3/4 lieters are fine for your SWB van with a bed in the back but your going to need a big capasity donk to haul that moyorhome around The 265 hemi would do it without much chopping & the 250 chevy would be great The 250 ford would need too much out of the drivers side you wouldnt have any where for a clutch pedal if you were running a manual & the same for the early ford 250 as it had the carby & exaust on the drivers side Another motor that has been overlooked is the toyota 4.2 Landcruser that might be worth a look should be plenty of them around Anyway with a 5.2 diff your going to need a OD transmisson to get any speed out of it otherwise your just going to be another speed hump for those B doubles out there they cruse at 110 all day That's why I got rid of my toyota coaster just too slow with a 3 lieter motor just no grunt Anyway enough of my ravings Cheers Reid
-
what about a 3 litre vl or skyline donk
with the RB's you end up cutting alot out of the drivers side due to the large intake plenum,
ive got a RB20e in my van n there is no room for a foot or clutch pedal between the column and engine cover
-
i've been toying with the idea of a BA inline 6 in a van for quite a while.. the BBM does take up alot of space on the left hand side of the motor, however if you were to have some 90degree adaptors made up and new support brackets, you could lay the manifold down to gain space.
Other potential options are the log manifold from EA-EB with an adaptor to fit the BA bolt pattern, or one of the aftermarket turbo manifolds which are similar to the log manifold.
The downsides to the log manifolds are reduced low down torque, but better top end HP, although realworld testing and tune may render different results to the theoretical disadvantages.
In the experience between my old BA motor versus the same year Commodore VY V6, similar mods had a much higher gain in my falcon in terms of HP though neither car had a tune with the mods, yet the difference was significant all the same.
The fact that taxis are getting 1,000,000kms without rebuilds is a testament to the motors.
If i had a spare van with no motor in it, i'd start looking at the option more seriously.
-
How about those 4cyl diesels out of the dynas and things, they have tare weight of 3500kg or more and are used in tip trucks and stuff
-
David, we ran these motors in our bottle trucks, the gearing in the auto is shocking, and even the 5 peed had poor top end............. ???
-
Gentlemen, thank you very much for all your feedback and suggestions. Geez what a great and diverse range of ideas. Thank you one and all.
What it does tell me that what with all the variations and options that some sort of a engine/driveline swap board may be needed. We are all thinking about different conversions but need more info about swaps that fit Bedfords and some of the headaches encountered would be helpful.
I liked all of the ideas suggested for different reasons.
Reid, I loved the Valiant Hemi idea. Hadn’t thought of that one before. It would be a great motor to push the 3 ton along very nicely. However, it would mean that I was stil faced with a high revving motor because of the diff.
You are also right about the power to weight problem with this big ol girl. Need lotsa torque and pulling power.
Getting a bellhousing to fit the T700 auto to the 202 is a good interim option. I see that 1st and 2nd are lower and third is still 1:1 but it gives me a .7 overdrive. This would be a good option while I weigh up my long term options. How much more powerful is a Holden Blue 202? Noticeable or not?
I have even looked at an AU falcon V8 (small block windsor) with a 4 speed auto but still go back to the problem of cutting the floor and getting squashed around the steering column.
I like the BA falcon with 4 speed auto option as (if I have read this all correctly) the major cutting would be on the passenger side. Plenty of space that side. BA wrecks are relatively cheap too. It also has EFI and likes LPG. 182kW of power and 380 Nm of torque. Does anyone know the shape of the sump? The 202 has the oil sump behind the X member. Not too sure if the falcons run this in front or behind like GM. Will have to go for a walk around the car yards one night.
I guess the next thing to do is to start getting some dimensions and sizes and do up some CAD images and talk to an engineer to see what is permitted in NSW. No point in aiming for ‘motor X” when the engineer won’t sign off on the transplant.
Keep em coming folks as it is invaluable.
Thank you
Neil
PS You know, just thought of something... If I ran Ford running gear, seeing as though mine is a LWB campervan I could really call it a BED-FORD. (Sorry about that folks)
-
The motor does not have to be in the centre.
In my last van I off set it on an angle so that space was retained on the driver's side, and the passenger had less. (but still plenty)
It worked perfectly.
-
nice idea jeff:)
-
Go for the Chev 292 inline 6, we talked about this before, it could be taken for a 202 Holden with the right detailing........... ;) Heres a post by Restoreid http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=2&topic=2973.msg30550#msg30550 (http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=2&topic=2973.msg30550#msg30550)
-
what about a small 4 or 6 cylinder diesel truck motor, heaps of torque.
and it coud fit with out two many issues
-
Saw this beddy repower in one of the NZ trademe posts, only one pic, but it looks sim ilar size to the holden six.
Repowered with a Nissan LD28
engine and auto gear box
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=32767&g2_serialNumber=2)
Will have to do a search for these motors
Warren
-
Thats a commin conversion over here there are quit a few of those done on campers
Cheers Paddy
-
Paddy
any more info, like what the motors out off, how much effort to fit it, any floor/engine cover work required etc?
Warren
-
i will see what i can find out for you
paddy
-
Yeah thats a real common one here. Nissan LD28 diesel. I had 1 in my 1st beddy. Went awesome if you dont mind cruising. Never missed a beat & the last I heard it was still going sweet. I know that if you are replacing the original vauxhall engine then you do have to cut a little bit out of the floor and make the engine cover a little longer & wider on the drivers side. Im putting that motor in my Yellow van as we speak. I also want to put it in my LWB. 1 van at a time :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_L_engine#LD28 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_L_engine#LD28)
-
Guys I have recently done a lot of research on fitting the ford engines to the ol Bedfords.
In short you will never fit an the 6 out of an AU or a BA because of the front sump. You need a rear sump on such a tall engine to clear the cross member.
If you a set on the twin cam 6 you will have to look at getting one from a 4x4 Territory.
If you are happy to settle on the SOHC 6 you will need to use a Pre AU engine and find a cortina sump and pickup to fit to the engine.
As yet I haven't done any detailed measuring on the inlet manifolds for either the twin or single cam engine. But from rough measurements you will have to have the engine sitting as low and as far to the drivers side as possible for the snail manifold to.
For the single cam 6 you could fit a carby manifold like one of these: http://www.aussiespeed.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6&Itemid=31 (http://www.aussiespeed.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6&Itemid=31)
My research leads me to believe that even in standard form the for six performs better with the carb than it does with the factory EFI.
Another option for the single cam is using the EB manifold that put the inlet down and to the front just like the image attached here.
I hope this information is helpful.
-
Guys I have recently done a lot of research on fitting the ford engines to the ol Bedfords.
In short you will never fit an the 6 out of an AU or a BA because of the front sump. You need a rear sump on such a tall engine to clear the cross member.
If you a set on the twin cam 6 you will have to look at getting one from a 4x4 Territory.
If you are happy to settle on the SOHC 6 you will need to use a Pre AU engine and find a cortina sump and pickup to fit to the engine.
As yet I haven't done any detailed measuring on the inlet manifolds for either the twin or single cam engine. But from rough measurements you will have to have the engine sitting as low and as far to the drivers side as possible for the snail manifold to.
For the single cam 6 you could fit a carby manifold like one of these: http://www.aussiespeed.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6&Itemid=31 (http://www.aussiespeed.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6&Itemid=31)
My research leads me to believe that even in standard form the for six performs better with the carb than it does with the factory EFI.
Another option for the single cam is using the EB manifold that put the inlet down and to the front just like the image attached here.
I hope this information is helpful.
Shane, this is fantastic information. Thank you for taking the time to give such great feedback.
Neil
-
Few months ago my poor brother had to take the crappy 186red motor out and thought he measured the 202blue as the same fit ,it wasNT..then the nite mare began,lol!
Chop the floor an inch or so ,He had to convert the carbi head & mould the engine cover to fit again.
Hes in a padded cell now and he hates his sister&her Beddy. :-[
OK, truth isssss... i begged him to lose more of his sanity and fix another 463 things on it,his padded cell is waiting for him at the end!!!!
So far, thats the bit he hated HATED the most,the engine transplant,caused a domino effect,being why thats its nickname now..Domino >:(
Goodluck ya poor bugga,lol.
-
ahhhh well u better not tell him we replaced our tired old 186 for a blue 202 motor...its fitted no prob! as we used the 186 sump on the 202! ;) we did have to modify the engine cover...also a HQ water pump so it would fit nicely behind the radiator......
-
i was just about to write that.
the sump is different between them.
the beddy holden motor have the holden EH sump on them so if you need a sump to suit the beddy look for an EH one (they are pretty rare thou im told)
cheers
ben
-
aren't the torana sumps like the EH ?
-
Nice bit of info there ben, I always wondered about that.
No Busy it's not the same, my old 202 came out of my mates Lx Torana, swapped the sump and oil pick up from the 173 we pulled out. Mine was a fairly easy swap, just had to modify engine cover on the left, had a Holley carb on which just hit.
Alex
-
EH sumps are rare, cause there the one to use when putting a red into FX, FJ,FE,FC,FB,EKand EJ
-
aren't the torana sumps like the EH ?
Yep, Torana sump fits the Beddie cross member good, that's what I used, clears CM by about 2", but once again hard to get here.