BUGA Community
Technical => Driveline => Topic started by: Poochimama on May 23, 2011, 02:28:42 PM
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Hi all,
I need yr help pleeease?
HOW DO I PUT A BLUE202 IN MY CF,..WHERE A 186 WAS,...ITS 4" WIDER ACROSS THE MANIFOLDS THAN 186???
How did the factory do it without cutting a bigger hole in the floor,its got me??
Found a good 202 finally,dont want to change it?
Has anyone done this yet?
I have a mechanic brother thats wondering if thrs an easier way round this than choppn out the floor?
Wheres that man on here with the angels wings that has the answers,lol!!
HELP PLEASE? ???
Cheers
Shell & steve
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Hi folks im afraid your going to have to bin the blue inlet manifold & fit the 202 red manifold Check out my Camper Update Post & youl see how I had to doo it All the later manifolds are wider but with a little fiddling you can get the early one to fit Cheers Reid
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OH really, >:( ..i will go and tell steve now!
Thanku for yr help, i will check out yr site!
Thanx
shell
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Another Beddy fanatic saved from madness ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hi Reid,
So are you when u say the early ones can fit with a bit of fiddleing do u mean a early blue motor or red??
As i have a 202 Blue and it is 4" wider across the manifolds?
Did they come from the factory with a 202 blue motor at any time reid?
Also what page out of 24pages,lol..shows how u did it..give me the short cut to find it please?
Thanku for yr help,
cheers
steve
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Hi Steve any off the Red motors maby your 186 will do the job Start at page 22 I used the standard 202 Red manifold with extractors off a 202 Blue motor you have to doo a fair bit off grinding to get the inlet manifold to fit over the extractors but the blue head is different the inlet ports are higher so the inlet manifold might fit without grinding Then I fitted an adaptor to the manifold to fit a duel throat webber off a XF falcon As I said a lot off fiddiling but it works fine & all clears the engine cover I will have a few more photos up soon asI get rid off this bloddy flue Cheers Reid
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Hey Poochy
where is the manifold wider? if it is only at the carby the engine cover could be modified to suit.
I would try and fit the motor with out the cover and if it fits within the firewall then just cut the cover to BULGE over the mainfols and carby.
There is plenty of room on the passanger side to do it and the later manifold would be better than an earlier one, and more than likely modifying the cover would be a lot easier and quicker than moding the manifold going on Restoreids description.
Warren
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Hey Warren,
Thanx mate for yr reply,
The maifold is 4" wider down the whole side/passenger side at floor level.
Id have to cut the part of firewall & floor out to get this inn, Big job,hoping for another way?
Apparently the 202 motor that they originally had in them was a red motor not the later blue motor which is much wider. >:(
cheers
Sheel n steve
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Hi reid,
Are your modifications being adapted to a Blue or a Red cylinder head,....<<thats the part i really need to know mate?
Then once i know this i can work things out...Hopppefully,lol?
Thanks for helpn me out fellas,im glad my we have joined this club,its great!
im stumped on this one,had no idea it was 4" bigger and nearly died wn i got the motor home then measure it! DAM!
Hope yr feeling better soon too,sorry to annoy you wn yr sick..
Cheers
Shell&Steve
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Thanks guys No ill live but im not getting anything done on mine either maby today Mine is a RED cylinder head they are the same width as the blue & black the only differance is the inlet ports in the blue & black are a little higher There are plenty off aftermarket manifolds for them but I think they are all wider thats y I used the Red manifold I will go next door to my bro inlaw's place & check it all out on his Blue motor The only problem is the Red manifold only has a single barrel carb but fitting a bouble barrel webber fixes that & it is a better carby than the standard 2barrel Blue carby there shit The webber is a progressiv linkage only runs on the small primary when your just crusing then when you floor it the secondary opens to give moor power Ill check today & give you some moore info tonight Cheers Reid
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You are soooooo helpful, thanku for clearing that up!
Go n tell steve this info now!
shell ;D
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blue head is 12 port, red head is only 9port . i unintentionally tried to run a 9 port manifold on a 12 port head once and failed:(
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Ok..steve said thrs so much red n blue talk,lol hes gettn confused...so he said is he right now sayn u actually have a red head&red manifold on a BLUE 202 motor?
Is that right Reid?
Hate to ask but IF possible steve asked..IF he can get yr phone number...just ONE call i promise,lol!
I just wish he could cut out the floor n put this good motor all in one piece inn,nd more power than this shit 186 in a van.
Thanku hun,
Shell
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Yeah thanx Ben!
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Hmmm..its lookn like the Manifold on the 202 may JUST fit,..BUT have to cut the anti pollution thingys off,or what ever they are..and seal up the holes in the manifold?
Mind u im just quoting what my poor frustrated brother is mumbling under the bonnet..
HOPE i can keep the bulk of the 202,so happy with this find,its a good engine!
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Hey Guys....
I posted on the old site about fitting my blue 202 ,extractors,blue inlet manifold...with a weber carby setup...with bits of a renault snorkel/BMW bits and Pod filter
there are some pics of it..inmy gallery...
I ended cuting a smalll scetion of floor ...and then remmaking my engine cover...works fine....
just alil bit of customising...Reids setup sounds better...no cutting floor..or engine cover..but hey we do what we do to get em working n moving again.. ;D
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Sorry guys I think I have confused you's Mine is still the standard 202 Red motor that I have fitted aftermarket extractors that were made for a 202 Blue motor Got them for NIX so I fitted them but the standard inlet manifold fould one of the pipes so I had to modify it to fit then I adapted the dual throat webber to it Bens right about the 12 port head but if you compair the 2 heads the devison only goes up into the manifold about2 inches so I dont think that would make much differance I didnt get to check it out today as my bro inlaw had to go out but will check it out as soon as possable as I am thinking of dooing the same as you's Cheers Reid
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Thanx Marky..
Think thats what my bro decided to do,cut out n engine cover refit!
Do u live in Byron? After my Beddys done im moving back that way..maybe we can Drag each other...my 202s hardcore mannn,lol!!
cheers
shell
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BUBBLE WINDOWS...been meaning to ask you guys,
where the hell do u get them,cant find anyone in Melb..anywhr for that matter!!?
Thanx
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I have a pair for the back doors
brand new never unwrapped (doing away with back doors/windows completely)
$100 + postage
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Kool, ill buy them! :)
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sounds like a good motor poochie...lucky u got a mechanic helpin...whats the condition of the 186 it was my understanding that those motors are still grouse...(an tough as)?
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Hey Jimmy
I am stoked with my mates 202 i bought off him,my bro a fitter machinist/engineer/brilliant perfectionist of a mechanic,NOTHN is ever done half assed or a short cuts as he restores his vinatge motor bikes to show gallery perfection,so YES i am blessed to have him with this motor. For steve to actually saaaay..Its GREAT 202 and just no rebuild ..NOTHING except change the oil as he drove it home from melton and floored it and its sooo quiet,No smoke..no noise tappn, no rattles, no nothing at high revs,im so happy...actually steve is even more happy as motor wise if steves says its great (being perfectionist pain at times)then ive just scrored a top motor..except for the fitting which hes decied to cut some floor out n change the mould of the engine cover.
As for the 186..we dont want it,but it made it easy home from Qld to Melb,even surprised steve who said it would..HA HA..just kept on going with out a miss of a beat,BUT no pull up hills..cows walkbn past us wr laughn at us!!!
So guess compressin shit..thats bloke talk im just repeatn what my bro said.lol!! But hey..it cruised on the flat from Qld no probs,we change over engines tday or tomorrow..exciting!!
Any way..day off tday to do my pimpn out of the inside.
Cheers
Shell
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Dont forget to take some pics Pooch...We luv em ;D ;D ;D
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YEAH..me too,i mean i love checkn out other guys beddys on here,so dam kool,i stay up late till i fall asleeep,lol!
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I've fitted a vk egi inlet manifold (12 port) to a 173 9 port head on a 186 block. You really wouldn't want to go 9 port manifold to 12 port head, it just strangulates the flow.
I really wanted to get rid of the old stromberg carby as I never run it on petrol, and it just was stupid to run lpg through it, the throttle being so small.
I made up an adaptor plate to fit a vk efi throttle body since I'm running straight gas, so no need for a carby or all the pollution crap. cut out the carby inlet into a square with jig saw and grinder, then used a die cutter to smooth out the edges for better flow, blocked the bottom exhaust inlets on the maifold with plates and grinded off the triangular bit on the side and blocked off those ports with plates. Then grinded the edges of the inlet ports on the manifold until it slid onto the head from above. It did just clear the extractors and the side of the floor. I had to bash out the cover just a bit for it to fit, but it's all good now. Lots more torque than the old manifold, can go uphill easily.
I'd recommend getting any other carby than the varijet, and making up an adaptor plate for it.
This was just a experimental step before I put on the VK EFI head with ram tubes manifold. THAT needed serious cutting out of the floor!
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what happened to the fuel injected manifold you were gunna use camden?
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Ben, this was just an experimental upgrade that came before the EFI head and ram tubes manifold changeover. I've gone back to this set-up temporarily as I get the EFI head shaved 78 thou since it's compression was only 8.8:1, not good for high octane lpg (knocking)! so it'll be 10.5:1 after shaving, then it's back on!
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good on ya camden ya crazy kid!
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Hey Ben,
Yeah mate ive pretty done the same with the manifold, cut it back just a touch more&relocated the vacume lines on the side to the top of the manifold!
And for now keep the varijet carb&doing heavy mods to the side of the cover to clear everything!
Thanks heaps for ALL yr imput on here, very helpful fellas,Thanx ben for uploading yr pics for me,cheers!!
Cheers
Steve
P.S: WISH i didnt have a sister at times,LOL..LOL!!! Mind u her love of Beddys came from me, she always wanted mine in the 70s as a kid and thanx to her i guess its all inspired me to pull mine from undercover and start my own project on it again,the gallery shots on here of others beddys are inspiring huh!
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Hi guy's I checked out that early Red manifold on the Blue head & it just wont work [pity] wouldnt seal & just wouldnt flow enough I checked out a few 6 cylinder webb sites & there is a few aftermarket manifolds for 2 barrel carbs that dont look as wide as the stock Blue one but there about 400bucks Seems as I will have to change my ideah's for a new motor & stick to getting the old 202 Red reconditioned & maby make my own inlet manifold as I dont want to cut the floor or modify the engine cover Anyway you seem to have it sorted dont forget to put some PHOTOS up for us all to see Cheers Reid
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THANKYOU REID for going to so much effort to help, u rock!
As im nearly broke with a mortage to pay ontop, this was the easiest n cheapest way out for me, so yeah..hes chopped some off side of manifold similar to the other guys pics above,and now belting&Welding the engine cover to extend it out,think he hates the cover more than the motor now,lol!
EVERYONES SO DAM HELPFUL with thr suggestions n support on here,makes me smile ;D.. how u all come to help one so quickly,hope to meet u all one day,that would be really kool.
As for PICS..i put them up on page 7 of the Gallery section with all the other members under poochi,i have the groovy gearstick as my album cover!
Ill take pics of his conversions for u soon.
Id just finish RE-covering the cover n lookn DAM kool,wn he said.."Shells..I now have to rip it all apart and remould it,SPEWING,lol...who cares,i got my health n thats all that matters in the end..My sanitys,well tahts anothet subject,lol..my Brothers sanity..straight jacket stuff thanx to his sis,lol!
cheers all, and THANKYOU for helpn me!
xoxox
Shelly
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Hey shelly no prob love to help as for your sanity you have to be a bit mad to own a Beddie & as for being broke I think most off the guyes & girls on here are doing it tuff if we all had money we would all own new stuff Enjoy your beddie & be nice to your bro hahahaha
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Ben, this was just an experimental upgrade that came before the EFI head and ram tubes manifold changeover. I've gone back to this set-up temporarily as I get the EFI head shaved 78 thou since it's compression was only 8.8:1, not good for high octane lpg (knocking)! so it'll be 10.5:1 after shaving, then it's back on!
So if swapped the standard Low compression Head on my Bedford Motorhome's 202 with a 173 High compression head on LPG
do you reckon that would give me more pulling power? i.e. Driving up hills and better cruising speed.
What about economy? and would the existing manifolds and extractors bolt straight back on?
I was reading on one of the other posts that 202 motor with 161 or 173 heads are like a poor mans V8..is there any truth to that or just talk?
cheers
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Worby, check this very insightful guide to understand what is involved to build a high performance holden six engine: http://oldjohnno.id.au/toc.html (http://oldjohnno.id.au/toc.html)
As he says:
"Why - Or Why Not - A Holden Six
I'll be blunt. If performance is the primary consideration and you don't have to use a particular engine to comply with rules then there are much better choices than the old Holden. Modern engines from Nissan or Toyota for example will out perform the old Aussie six by a massive margin - you won't even be in the race. Another older engine with a fair bit more potential - mainly due to it's bigger displacement - is the old Hemi six. All of these engines will outperform the Holden and almost certainly cost less on a horsepower per dollar basis. Building Holden sixes with outputs of around 250hp and up can get very expensive very quickly. Unless you really need or want to run the six then something like an LSX, a 2JZ or an RBDET will make more power for less money. If however, you don't need to make a million horsepower, or you'll be competing against similar engines, or perhaps you want to build up a cool old-school street car then the Holden six might do the job nicely. Of course, some of us just have a soft spot for the little sixes and enjoy the challenges of making them perform. Just don't kid yourself that you're going to show these young blokes with their turboed 2JZs a thing or two with the old 202 - you'll only embarass yourself."
It depends on a LOT of factors to get a holden six to even remotely come close to a V8 in performance, and still, by the time you did all that, it would've been cheaper and simply easier to put a V8 in!
I've reached my conclusions that the VK EFI head (even the whole black 3.3 EFI engine, with starfire conrods and a mildly sporty camshaft) is the best choice for immediate performance enhancement. Mine is getting shaved down for greater compression, which you could also do to your 202 head, and only costs about $50. Check to see if it has hardened valve seats and if not, consider getting them put in. Well worth it, especially for running on lpg.
I will have my reconditioned 173 HP head with HV seats for sale when I got my other head back.
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Thanks Rothu ....or is it Camden :P
Im not after street or racing performance..dads old Beddy Motorhome is a big heavy Girl at around 4 tonne loaded for sure...
so if I can get a bit more Horsepower without breaking Rods , axels or the bank then
that would be good as its not fun driving down the motorway in the slow lane at only 75 to 80KPH
with the motor screaming her head off and the steering wheel shuddering in your hands while
all the other traffic is zooming by at 100 to 110KPH....even worse if your going up a hill. :-[
I realise all the newer motorhomes like the Mercedes Sprints and the VW Craft or the Ivecos all
use powerful turbo diesel motors generating much greater horsepower to weight so im never going
to stack up to those modern thoroughbreds..but it would be satisfying to keep up with the traffic. ;D
Before dad died, he was looking at air-research Turbo kits but the quotes I found amongst his
paper work were nearly $6K which is probably why he never went with that option
Also he was kicking himself for getting his 3:5:1 diff exchanged for a 4.11:1 unit...combined with
the 4 speed Aussie box its ok of the mark at the lights but runs out of breath at 80 KPH.
I realise we are talking about a 35 year old van with the aerodynamics of a brick, and heavy truck like
construction so maybe Im just kidding myself.
Yet I see some of the guys from NZ with their Motorhomes pulling speedboats and they are only running straight 6's
with 3 speed auto boxes...so maybe there is still somethings I can do to improve performance.
Im still not making much progress with the persistent loss of power under load. as per my other post...
Ive checked all the push rods they are all straight as an arrow, put them all back in and re tensioned them
and they are running fine, adjusted the advance using both vacuum and timing light...running sweet...
so now Im back to possible dissy problems, coil, condenser, spark plugs, or something else ????
BTW what price will you be asking for your 173 head?
cheers
Ian
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Wholey crap 4 tonne you'l never get enough grunt out off a 202 unless you supercharg it You need one off these 292 chevy 6 in there plenty off grunt in standard form then put a 4 barel on & a good exaust & ittle look stock I had a toyota coaster with a toyota crecida ohc 6 in it & it was a gutless wonder You need a motor with a long stroke crank they make plenty off grunt A long stroke 6 will make more torkue than a v8 unless the v8 is over 400 cubes Just my 2bobs worth Cheers Reid
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It might be sacrolige but I wonder how a ford crossflow 6 (at around 4 litres) would go.
My Dads old transit camper had the earlier cast manifold head motor and a 3 speed, it cruised at 100Kmh but any incline would have it struggling.
I was talking to him about swaping a 4 speed in as that would have made a world of difference, but a crash saw the van totaled befor I did.
I seem to remeber a few comments about some vans with ford 6 motors on here.
Warren
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I run this worked 202 red with a 3 speed overdrive Trimatic had a 3.5 rear end but now runs a 4.1 due to the overdrive, pulls the camper along well.
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Wow Bas..that is a pretty solid rig..nearly as big as mine.. 8)
How much does yours weigh?
Mine is registered as 3.5GMV so with all the fuel tanks, and water tanks full plus camping gear etc
and two on board I figure its got to be about 4 tonne. :-\
I can't see if your running dual or single rear wheels or not but guessing singles as you've got mags.
So with the 4.1:1 diff and 3 speed auto with overdrive it gets along OK...(so thats really 4 speeds , whats the ratios if you know)
Also...when you say a "worked 202"
It looks like youve got a yella terra performance High compression head with Roller rockers... extractors
& im figuring you're running a slightly wild cam to give it some extra grunt...am I close?
What else have you done to her? Does it run straight Petrol or LPG as well?
cheers
Ian
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Hey Pooch,
You still having problems? For what it is worth I have a blue 3.3 12 port with extractors. I have attached a photo of the serial number of the manifold that works for me.
http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=8&g2_itemId=32938 (http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_gallery2&Itemid=8&g2_itemId=32938)
More pictures in my gallery under carby.
Mike
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Hey, Just come across this now..sorry!
All good now, absolute freakn NITEMARE for my bro to fit inn,everything else had to change to fit it too..never again,lol,wish i saw this number b4 hand,might of helped maybe??
thanx for helpn out,
cheers
shell