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Technical => Driveline => Diffs => Topic started by: dan1989 on May 11, 2011, 06:20:19 PM

Title: diff rebuild
Post by: dan1989 on May 11, 2011, 06:20:19 PM
hi all there is a problem with the pinion bearings in the diif of my 75 beddie. it makes a winning sound when driving at speed. is this an easy fix or is it best to replace the whole diff. it is a borg warner diff. any ideas would be great. cheers.
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: Warren on May 11, 2011, 09:10:02 PM
First off check and see if its got any oil in it, if not put some in and see what happens.

Warren
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: Warren on May 11, 2011, 09:26:04 PM
Further to this, as finding other diffs for beddies can be difficult, its better to work with what youve got, borge warner spares should be easy to find so getting yours adjusted or rebuilt could be the go.

Warren 
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: Abdu on May 22, 2011, 11:38:06 AM
First off check and see if its got any oil in it, if not put some in and see what happens.

Warren
Further to this, as finding other diffs for beddies can be difficult, its better to work with what youve got, borge warner spares should be easy to find so getting yours adjusted or rebuilt could be the go.

Warren  I know of three diffs in brisbane, all high ratio, one is original '74 bedford diff from UK ( which i brought with me) is suited for the 2.3 vauxhall 4 cylider engine. 2 is high ratio diff, which I have recently removed the axles due to a bearing problem, 3 is a high ratio diff, but has had the axle housing modified the suit the bedford, i believe they may be ford diffs.
If there is any interest in these p[ls advise.
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: aussieneil on May 24, 2011, 08:27:53 PM
I'm in the middle of a diff pickle myself, so maybe others can guide me, and also shed light on the original post.

My camper is a '73 (September), and it has a tired diff with whining and a lot of backlash. The sensible way to go seemed to buy a relatively low-mileage CF and use its diff (and bonnet, and doors, and a few other bits I could use).

I bought a '78 CF on eBay (the one where they reckoned it had done only 112,000km from new - sure!), pulled out the diff and had it fully checked over, re-bearinged and re-sealed.

Today I went to change the two, and they're TOTALLY different! The only common thing is the spring-to-spring spacing. The 'new' diff is much larger physically, has larger drums, different backing plates, different pinion flange bolt spacing, different U bolts, different everything!

The 'new' diff is 49/11 (4.45:1), while the old, squarer, lighter (English?) diff seems to be somewhere about a 4.6:1 ratio.

I think I'll simply make the mods to the tailshaft (shorten by about 3.5cm and fit the bigger flange/uni joint) and fit the diff/backing plates/brakes from the '78 in their entirety.

Is the 'new' diff a Borg-Warner? What's the 'old' one?

Any comments on changing the 2-piece tailshaft with a centre bearing to a one-piece now it has to be re-manufactured anyhow? (total tailshaft length will be about 68 inches).

Any guidance appreciated!
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: Warren on May 24, 2011, 08:45:22 PM
As Beddycrazy would say PICS PICS PICS

THe diff could be bedford or anything else.

As for the tailshaft John Abbot may be able to help I think he replacesd his 2 bit on for a once peice one.

Warren
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: aussieneil on May 24, 2011, 08:54:29 PM
Message received! I'll get some pics tomorrow when there's some light, and hopefully some above-zero temps!

The one-piece shaft interests me. A local driveline specialist (Morrisons CV & Driveline in Bendigo) said today that 71 inches was the general cutoff point to go 1-piece, and this would be a couple of inches within that. I'd hoped that metallurgy and technology would mean that a 1-piece would make more sense than a 2-piece now in 2011 than in 1973.
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: John Abbott on May 24, 2011, 09:48:56 PM
Hi Guys....Aussieneil, i looked into trying to get a one piece tailshaft for my LWB truck made up but my measurements were to long so i had to get a 2 piece instead. I had a sensational company here in Perth by the name of Hardy Spicer use a tailshaft from a VL TURBO 6cyl commodore and lengthen it. It still uses the commodore centre bearing but the front input shaft is for a trimatic and the rear suits a holden salsbury diff. The whole lot came to $590.00 thats new unis ,centre bearing,and mods. It was worth every cent. ;D ;D
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: aussieneil on May 25, 2011, 11:00:14 AM
OK, some pics as promised. (I hope I attached the pics correctly)

The first two are the existing diff - quite 'square' in appearance, and relatively light in construction.

The last two are the diff out of the low-mileage '78 CFS van (after being dismantled, checked, and new seals fitted). 49/11 ratio (4.45:1), much larger, heavier construction, different backing plates and larger-diameter drums, as well as larger drive flange.
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: Jeff on May 25, 2011, 04:00:11 PM
It looks to me that you have an old short wheel base back end in your van, and you are going to fit a long wheel base back end into it. This will have stronger splines,  :) and bigger brakes  :)(as you have said).
I can see no reason why it should not fit.  ;D   although it may pay to remeasure the driveshaft.
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: aussieneil on May 25, 2011, 04:39:48 PM
Thanks for that. Yes, I'll be having to re-measure (and rebuild) the driveshaft without a doubt, but it certainly seems to be a much stronger diff all round. The shaft will need to be shortened by about 3.5cm.

Strangely enough, the replacement diff has come out of a genuine, one-owner low-mileage short wheelbase van dating from 1978 (still with its original 173 with numbers that match the original sales documentation) which was taken off the road back in 1995. The campervan dates from 1973, and also has its original-number 173 (and is also a one-family owner vehicle).
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: ben on May 25, 2011, 09:21:15 PM
my guess is the smaller of the 2 is the bedford 9inch drummed diff.(all the ones i ever seen these converted to borg wagner centres)

 i have only ever seen one of these and i had no idea what it was and now i know it must be original. (mates swb i thought it must have been an hwy diff)

the second is the 10 inch drummed diff. it has different spine axels and obviously bigger drums. yeh quite a bit of difference between them.

ben

Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: TheArchiTech on April 06, 2013, 05:50:33 PM
my guess is the smaller of the 2 is the bedford 9inch drummed diff.(all the ones i ever seen these converted to borg wagner centres)


ben



Hey Ben do you know if you can still by the borg Warner heads new?, As I now have two off these diffs and the heads are buggered. (spider gears)
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: BusyKiwi on April 06, 2013, 06:24:19 PM
lots of things came out with the old borg warner, P76 leyland for example
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: TheArchiTech on April 06, 2013, 08:23:03 PM
I wondering what to do. As the wheel bearing in the one that has the cresta pinion in it are buggered and theres 500 bucks just for those two bearings.

Wondering weather I better of to get a newer holden diff of mate and put that in instead. I running a 173 holden with the standard 4 speed bedford gearbox. pushing along a shortwheel base camper

Just thinking for future repairs, might be easier to get parts for holden than bedford. It won't matter if a little bit narrower I might just have to get some tyres for my 15 x 8 mags to go on to bring the width right again
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: rumax on April 06, 2013, 10:02:09 PM
Shoot me down, but I thought the way to go was a Ford F100 (150/250).
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: Rogue Trooper on April 07, 2013, 08:37:56 AM


Just thinking for future repairs, might be easier to get parts for holden than bedford. It won't matter if a little bit narrower I might just have to get some tyres for my 15 x 8 mags to go on to bring the width right again

I think you'll find that you won't get tyres wide enough for 15x8 wheels to bring the width right.
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: restoreid on April 07, 2013, 09:08:50 AM
Iv done the holden diff swap { check out diff section in forum } lengthened the short side 4inches to fit long axel & it's still 60mm shorter than original beddie diff but that can be made up with wider wheels
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: TheArchiTech on April 07, 2013, 12:03:31 PM
lots of things came out with the old borg warner, P76 leyland for example

So are we saying that this would fit in the head of my current bedford Diff?
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: TheArchiTech on April 07, 2013, 12:04:13 PM
As I can by parts for these
http://nkaparts.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=83, (http://nkaparts.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=83,) they got a 25 spine also.
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: Rogerfied on April 11, 2013, 03:28:15 PM
Just to add more choices, here is the VT Commodore IRS I have installed in my LWB
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: John Abbott on April 11, 2013, 04:50:17 PM
I've seen this in person guys and as they said in Mad Max ,,,, "Its the ducks guts"  ::) ::)
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: Gordon on April 11, 2013, 07:42:26 PM
Bloody clever Roger. I seem to recall you mentioning something about lowering your front suspension a while back. Keen to find out how you got on with it. Cheers Gordon
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: John Abbott on April 11, 2013, 10:22:05 PM
Ive seen that as well !!!!!  (Christ im like i kid in a lollie shop) But i will let Roger tell you how he did it Coz its his baby  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: vintageholden on April 12, 2013, 05:37:22 AM
i would love to come to pinjarah to have a look i,m in carlisle..not far...
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: Gordon on April 12, 2013, 10:39:03 AM
Jeez John, now you've got me excited. Can't wait to hear how Roger did it.
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: Rotti on April 12, 2013, 03:31:09 PM
Better than a smack across the chops with a golf shoe! ;D
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: John Abbott on April 12, 2013, 04:11:54 PM
Much Better Rotti  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: John Abbott on April 12, 2013, 04:15:30 PM
Rodger will be moving to Baldivis very soon so he will be closer. Good reason for a club run eh? ;) ;) ;D
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: vintageholden on April 13, 2013, 06:10:00 PM
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/maddington/other-parts-accessories/vx-lsd-diff/1017684865 (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/maddington/other-parts-accessories/vx-lsd-diff/1017684865)
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: TheArchiTech on May 19, 2013, 01:24:17 PM
Shoot me down, but I thought the way to go was a Ford F100 (150/250).


I investigated this and yes they are basically the same size there are two different ones I have been speaking with importer from Gore and they did lots of these conversions. But I am looking at 1200 for the diff and then still need to modify and then look at certification, so I probably looking around 1500 bucks to get this or sorted out.

So I have gone of this idea.

I am back on the idea of fixing the older diff.
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: ShaneJ on May 19, 2013, 08:59:25 PM
Be careful with F100 or any commercial diff as the centres are offset to the driver side which will cause problems with the tail shaft wanting to pass through your fuel tank.
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: TheArchiTech on May 20, 2013, 09:06:28 AM
Yeah I have given up on the F100 diff due to costs, I trying to sort a cheaper solution and to prevent certification.

I have found some information in regards to the spline sizes of my axles and the diff head gears, from this web site. http://www.difflap.com.au/for_sale.htm (http://www.difflap.com.au/for_sale.htm)

So I am going to do some investigation with an auto wrecker to see what we can get to fit using a 25 spline axle. Which is what my diff is
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: BusyKiwi on May 20, 2013, 09:16:49 AM
Bedford are same spline as commodore and falcon, well about 1mm difference in spline depth/width/angle - what ever you want to call it.
A quick pass with diegrinder along each spline fixes it
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: TheArchiTech on May 20, 2013, 09:18:59 AM
Sweet, I hopinig that I can use the housing of any of these chocies These gears are 25 splines and will replace your original components. (reference from http://www.difflap.com.au/for_sale.htm (http://www.difflap.com.au/for_sale.htm) )

They will fit:
Ford Falcon XR to EL, (Borg Warner diff), Holden Commodore VK to VL, Chrysler Centura 6 cylinder, Ford Transit fitted with Borg Warner diffs, Some Ford Cortina 6 cylinder vehicles and Nissan Pintara.
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: TheArchiTech on May 20, 2013, 09:19:38 AM
I would then hopefully be able to fir my crown wheel to these and still use my pinion wheel
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: BusyKiwi on May 20, 2013, 09:57:49 AM
All the early borg warners are interchangeable but the later ones aren't (they are bigger), but you can't just change; for example the borg warner into the bedford housing, you have to cut and weld the centre as they all differ
Title: Re: diff rebuild
Post by: TheArchiTech on May 20, 2013, 10:03:48 AM
So how come it looks as the cogs are the same size would that not mean the housings would be the same?
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