BUGA Community
Technical => Driveline => Topic started by: Chook on May 05, 2011, 05:33:55 PM
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I am a new member and don't quite know who to ask the following questions... hope somebody can help. I have a 1979 CF Motorhome (heavy) but unfortunately with single rear wheels. I need to convert the single to dual rear wheels so am looking for dual rear wheels/axle/diff etc. to suit. When Motorhome unit was built on cab/chassis, provision was made for duals with aluminium bodywork so no problem there. Q1.. Is this conversion feasable? Q2.. Has anybody got assembly they want to part with? Q3.. How much $? Q4.. Is it a simple 'out with the old, in with the replacement?' Q5.. Has any person ever done this and does it take care of the weight problem? I would greatly appreciate any help/answers as at the moment I think the Motorhome with its weight (possibly 3 tonnes+) is dangerous to drive. Thanks.. Chook.
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Hi Chook, I have moved your post int a more appropriate location.
To answer some of your questions
Q1 - yes anythings possible - the complexity will depend on a few things if the van origonally was set up for dualies, from my understanding in the vans the chassis is narrower to allow for the dualie diff, I'm not sure if it is the same for the cab chassis though, possibly the chassis is the same width for both situations.
Q2 Ben may have
Q3 Buga-d if I know
Q4 see answer 1
Q dunno
Warren
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how did you come to the total weight?? i have a cf230 & im only 2.4t running singles.
i have had the single spring re-tensioned by 3" & it sits fine now.
im running 215 x 80 x 14 front & back.. if you are still running the old beddy 185's LT thats too small for the weight..
mine are rated at 1100kg each tyer max.
David
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Thanks for the reply Warren, and for moving my post to a more suitable location. (wish I knew how to do that). I have taken into account your info and am still looking for the rear assembly. That is an interesting point about the narrower chassis. Hadn't thought about that. Again, thanks. If you come across any further info please advise me..... Chook.
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Thankyou NZ LS120 for the reply. Have had the Beddy weighed and on a bad day it comes in at approaching three & half ton. Bear in mind, two water tanks, Dual fuel (two tanks), two spare wheels, 2.0 KVA Genny, 2 Frigs., Solar with 2 huge AGM batteries, 3 large lead acid batteries on the alternator system, built in Air-cond., tools, and then there is the wife's kitchen.. phwew! All items necessary to travel in some sort of comfort.
The 215x80x14 is interesting. I am running 195's. Are you using standard rims? Or widies? Again thanks for the contact ... Chook.
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im running k9 steel rims.. they have been powder coated.. you can see them in my gallery.
the higest i could get was 215 x 85 x 14.. mine at LT as well but went with the 80's as getting then on & off is a little tricky now with the extra height o the tyre.
i will mesure mine & my uncles today & let you know about width as he has a cf350 jumbo & mine was a cf230 cab chasis.
David
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The dual wheel model has deeper wheel arches inside the van, and the axle sits above the springs, not underneath like the others.
So there will be some mucking around to get it to fit.
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LS120, what is the wigth of the K9 rims? 7inches?
Warren
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I have been told another alternative is to use standard rims with outside rim turned around with spacer in between rims and modified studs to suit spacer and extra wheel set-up. Anybody else done this or heard of it?... Chook
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Wheel stud spacers are a definite no-no. Very illegal.
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For interest sake, had my Motorhome weighed yesterday..... two occupants (140 kg), full petrol tank (60 litres), LPG (60 litres), dual water tanks (140 litres), two spare wheels. Total weight 3.7 tonnes (holy cow!!). With no occupants and all tanks empty, 3.3 tonnes. No wonder I need rear duals. Scales say loaded rear weight is 2.5 tonnes, so tyres (195R14) cannot take weight. Tyre Co. tells me nothing I can have fitted will take weight. Even with tanks empty, can't understand why so damn heavy...! Any suggestions fellas, apart from putting a match to it I mean......? Chook.
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hey chook, 1st when was it built, 2nd i would look at what materials they used to build the camper. My guess is they have used heavy steel instead of alloy, and maybe thick heavy ply instead of something lightweight. Maybe try to open up a small area and see what was used to build it. Good luck.
george.
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we have a caravan here that dad bought and it light enough my 55kg mum and move it around on her own. its called an ultra light:) i agree with george. rip the back off and replace it with something lighter like cardboard:) cardboard is wonderful stuff and ts free. when it wears out go grab some more for free:)
ben
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obviously you weighed it on a heavy gravity day
(must have been the same day my cook jumped on the scales)
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OK guys, your humour is overwhelming....lol... But I suggest nobody gives up their day jobs...... Seriously, I don't have any issues with the reputable mob and their weighbridge because they are just that.... reputable. Even a Certificate issued for registration purposes. George, thanks for the common-sense. Cab chassis is 1979 but no idea when camper was built on it. Yeh, I can't believe it's so bloody heavy either (today I snapped a rear axle and am hastily searching for one) but soon as possible will take your advice on board and begin a small search to determine construction. Regards to all... Chook.
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Chook
Yes the older motorhomes were BUILT :D At 3.7 tonnes shes some lady
If you are having trouble finding a Bedford dual wheel diff, broaden your search. Look at other brands of trucks, ford, toyota, isuzu etc.
A walk around a truck wreckers might be the thing to do.
I would do lots of messurements of your van ie chassis width, wheel arch openings, distance to the spring etc.
Also consider the diff ratio when purchasing as well.
If you find diff that meets your requiremnts, but the mounting brackets are in the wrong place dont stress as they can be easily moved.
Warren
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Warren, thanks for that info. Nice to know I'm sane. New problem has just come up. We are in Adelaide and have just snapped rear drivers side axle, 21 spline. Help, has anybody got one?? Towed to mechanic's workshop and now "living" inside workshop inside motorhome so situation extremely URGENT. My phone number is 0409040230 and email chook2011@hotmail.com Regards Chook.
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Warren, have located an axle and it is on its way to the mechanic. Fingers crossed everything goes OK. Ahhh! Bedford spares seem to be a problem...or is that an understatement?!.... Cheers.. Chook.
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As my dear Dad used to say "The Impossible just takes a little longer" :)
Welcome to Beddy world!
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My 1976 CF Bedford Motorhome is also a big heavy old girl
She is registered with a GVM of 3353KGs and is a LWB with dual
rear wheels 7 x 14.6 so I can fully apprecate what your dealing with.
She is a fibreglass unit and much of the origional furnishings were heavy
particle board, but after Dad had here stranded in the flood waters during
Cyclone Larry he ripped it all out and replaced with stronger but lighter marine ply.
Still with full 80 litre LPG tank, 2 x 120 litre Water tanks and 2 x 55litre Fuel tanks
full fridge and other assorted praphanalia I bet she goes close to 4 Tonne all up.
No Wonder she is so slow on the highway and although it is powerd by a straight 6 202
with extractors, I think the current 4.1 :1 ratio of the 9" diff combined with a Munchie or Aussie
4 speed doesnt help either.
I would like to see her with a 3:55:1 hiway diff with a trimatic or a Celica 5 speed box.
I hope you figure out what you can do to lighten your load.
You can check out the pics of my Bedford Motor home on page 4 of the gallery under Worby876
Cheers
ian
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Ian, thanks for all the interesting information. It is comforting to know that I am not the only one with a Bedford motorhome that weighs so heavy. I can understand the 4 tons because you are carrying far more fuel and water than we are. At least you have the dual wheels to carry such weight. How does it handle on the road? A lot straighter than mine I'll bet.
I have a choice... either I sell the old girl, or put in a dual wheel set-up from another make of vehicle if I can't find a Beddy rear wheel set-up for sale. The other problem is that I'm not capable of doing the job myself so would have to find someone interested enough to want to change it over.. and get paid of course... But finding someone who actually wants to do the job would probably be more difficult than finding the dual wheel set-up.
Ian, what is the measurement of your front wheel centre to rear wheel centre? Mine is 3220mm. Also what are the dimensions of the "living quarters"? Mine is 3515 x 2350mm. And is yours a rear kitchen? Also fuel consumption.. I am using a lot of fuel, whether it be gas or petrol. Reckon I am lucky to get 3.5 kilometres to the litre (less than 10 mpg for old scholars).
Cheers mate..........Chook.
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Chook are you on tour or residing somewhere, as one of the beddy bretheran may be close by and able to help.
Warren
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Hi Warren. Had the axle put in (snapped it in Adelaide) and leaving Adelaide tomorrow morning bound for Portland/Heywood (home) in Victoria. Gonna go slow. Probably 3 days to get there. No hurry and nursing the old girl. When home, will contemplate Beddy's future.... To keep or not to keep.. That is the question.......... Regards.. Chook.
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Keepit Chook Keepit
All it needs is a diff conversion to make it right.
I had the use of a Transit motorhome for a while and it was heaps of fun, I even commuted to work in Pahran Melbourne, and I could sneak out and have a nap at lunch time :D
There is bound to be an engineering joint in Portland that can assist with a diff change.
Warren
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Gday chook,
I hope you made it home ok...
I will measure the distance tomorrow and get back to you..
On LPG when she is tuned right she gets about 6-7 KM / litre, but at the moment she is very poorly tuned with no power, and so the economy
is out the door, I noticed the new spark plugs were very black and sooty so I think the timing of the ignition is way out :(
She is no speedster that's for sure..flat out doing 80 and screaming her head off , I think Dad got the diff ratio wrong, it 4.1:1 and should
really be 3.5:1 or similar (what they call a Hi way Diff) she is also fitted with a Aussie 4 speed, thats good of the lights but runs out of
puff in 4th. Id like to see if a 5 speed celica will make a difference or maybe a trimatic (so the missus can drive her) but I suspect Im gonna
have to change the Diff. I just want to be able to cruise at 100 on the motor way. I know im not gonna be able to do that up hills, but
its a bit fustrating having to stay in the slow lane on the M1 when its pretty flat. :-[
I will try to post some pics of the interior set up tomorrow.
Basically rear curb side entrance with wash basin at rear, Shower/toilet rear drivers side, Gas stove, grill, oven and kitchen sink on drivers side
and then a dinette with sliding table and storage under seats, Double Queen sized Bed over front Cabin, 3 seat lounge with storage with dual batteries under seats, 2way 80l fridge, microwave, gas water, plenty of overhead cupboards and storage. Coleman evaporative air-cooler,
four seasons ceiling vents. So its got everything you need ...Dad did a couple of extended trips up to CAirns Cook-town, and Darwin in her.
Cheers
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Ian, the interior layout is much the same as ours... now that's a coincidence because all the Beddy Motorhomes I've seen have a different configuration inside. I will look forward to hearing about those measurements also to further compare. As for 6-7 km/litre... I wish! Even tuned I cant get that. Our A/cond is a Hitachi wall unit which easily runs off the Genny (and even from the inverter from Solar on low cool- probably not recommended).
Not yet home though Ian. Camping on the way. taking it easy. Thanks so much for your reply....
Some say my itinerary aint like a headless chook... others tell the truth.
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Thanks Warren... Maybe I will keep it... All depends on this dual rear wheel setup.... You are right when you say a workshop in Portland may be able to do the changeover but first gonna have to locate a suitable diff/dual wheels. I'll keep trying...
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Gday Chook,
Good to hear your making progress..trust you will arrive home OK.
Ive been having my own dramas with My Dads Beddy Motorhome he left me. (He passed on in 2006) , He had some good info on it and Holden Motors here http://gallery.oldholden.com/Jack_s/ (http://gallery.oldholden.com/Jack_s/)
Its a LWB so its 140 Inches between front and rear wheels. I've posted some pics in the Gallery on Page 4 and will try to put some more of the interior as she looks after dad gutted her and rebuilt her from the flood he went through during cyclone Larry back in 2005.
Right now Im not enjoying any fuel economy because shes still stranded in the driveway with all sorts of problems to dues with timing and valve train set up...Im at the end of my tether and ready to follow suit of my other BUGA collegues who have nearly had nervous breakdowns and threatened to push their Bedford of a cliff...its so stressful isnt it when things goo wrong and you dont know what to do :-\
Maybe you could post a few pictures of your Bedford Camper / Motor Home when you get a moment..Id be one of many here interested to check her out.
Cheers
Ian
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Right now Im not enjoying any fuel economy because shes still stranded in the driveway with all sorts of problems to dues with timing and valve train set up...Im at the end of my tether and ready to follow suit of my other BUGA collegues who have nearly had nervous breakdowns and threatened to push their Bedford of a cliff...its so stressful isnt it when things goo wrong and you dont know what to do :-\
Just going out on a limb here but have you thought of getting an actual mechanic to take a look at it?
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Thanks for info Ian... Is the 140 inches from mid front axle to mid rear axle or between the front and rear wheels as you have said? I'm still interested to know the exterior dimensions of the "living quarters" when you have the time to send them.. Thanks.. As for pictures, I will try to post some although must admit not over sure how to do it on computer. Bear with me...!
Sad to hear about your engine problems. Hope you fix it soon.
Regards
Chook
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OH I just realised your using metric measurements your 3220 mm is 126 Inches my 140 LWB equals 3556 mm
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Just going out on a limb here but have you thought of getting an actual mechanic to take a look at it?
Fair enough comment Rogue..As i said in the other Post..Im at the point of having to do that..because i live at the top of a fairly steep hill, I m reluctant to drive
her in case I cant make it back home again, should I be unsuccessful in finding a mechanic who will look at her..so Im now considering the idea of possibly getting
on of the mobile mechanics (hopefully one with some understanding and appreciation of LPG conversions) to come and fix her.
So its a couple of factors, one I was hoping I could with everyones suggestions and Dad's Notes fix her my self (despite my in experience)
secondly, I was hoping to avoid further unnecessary costs, as everytime I go to fix or add something on this inherited project...my wife rolls her eyes ::)
Im sure some of you fellas can relate to that...nough said :-*
and finally, I guess the hassle of trying to find an appropriately qualified and proficient person , mobile mechanic willing to come to my place at a time that suits me who can do the Job in short order without charging like two wounded bulls while they learn on the Job and try to pull the wool over my eyes.
Its easy to let theses fustrations spoil and rob us of the potential oportunity to simply drive and enjoy the Bedford experience , but onwards and upwards eh? :P
Thanks for your continued interest.
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have you taked the carb apart?? to clean it .. if so make sure you put the accellration pump plunger the right way up.. ???
my misstake once.. ;D
would idle fine but no power & bogging down under load..
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I have only ever used a mobile mechanic once and he was very good as he did his time as a mechanic on the old red holden motors. I was able to look over his shoulder and gain a bit of knowledge myself from him. So see how you go Ian . ;D
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Thanks John
I asked for a couple of quotes with a few Mobile Mechanical services on line
Mobiel lube (part of a national franchise) want $89 to turn up and quote me
and then its $115 per hour plus parts...
Im waiting to hear back from another mob who claim they specialise in LPG setups.
I dont mind paying a fair days pay for work done..but dont want to pay for someone
figuring out whats wrong and then telling me its beyond them or its gonna cost a bomb...
I try a few more to get an idea of whats the going rate and then I will bite the bullet and go
with the one I think has the best experience..Not necessarily the cheapest...although its
tempting.
cheers
Ian
Ps
Was Jacks Birthday yesterday..he would have been 72... I miss him.
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have you taked the carb apart?? to clean it .. if so make sure you put the accellration pump plunger the right way up.. ???
my misstake once.. ;D
would idle fine but no power & bogging down under load..
Gday LS,
Naah ..Ive not touched the carby..like I said earlier in the other thread...it was going like a dream...Dad had it set up real sweet,
and Ive hardly driven it since his passing..maybe 500 miles all up...it was only after I loaned it to some of my work mates and they
cooked it going up the Toowoomba range and after that it started over heating all the time and so I did a head gasket replacement
and must have upset either the timing or the push rods or both that it started to loose power under load...it still started ok and reved
fine but no pulling power up hills or under load.
hopefully I will find a mechanic to sort it out. waiting to hear back from this fella soon
http://www.gasmechanicbrisbane.com.au/ (http://www.gasmechanicbrisbane.com.au/)
cheers
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Ian, the interior layout is much the same as ours... now that's a coincidence because all the Beddy Motorhomes I've seen have a different configuration inside. I will look forward to hearing about those measurements also to further compare. As for 6-7 km/litre... I wish! Even tuned I cant get that. Our A/cond is a Hitachi wall unit which easily runs off the Genny (and even from the inverter from Solar on low cool- probably not recommended).
Not yet home though Ian. Camping on the way. taking it easy. Thanks so much for your reply....
Some say my itinerary aint like a headless chook... others tell the truth.
Gday Chook,
I hope you made it home safe and sound...
I thought I would post some photos of the layout of my Motor home...
here we go
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=31468&g2_serialNumber=5)
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=31474&g2_serialNumber=2)
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=31479&g2_serialNumber=2)
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=31484&g2_serialNumber=3)
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=31489&g2_serialNumber=2)
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=31494&g2_serialNumber=2)
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=31499&g2_serialNumber=3)
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=31504&g2_serialNumber=3)
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=31509&g2_serialNumber=3)
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=31514&g2_serialNumber=3)
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=31519&g2_serialNumber=2)
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=31524&g2_serialNumber=3)
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=31529&g2_serialNumber=2)
I hope these will give you an idea of the internal lay out
Id love to see pics of your rig too :D
cheers
Ian
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Howdy Ian and thanks for the great pictures. They really give me an idea of the inside of your motorhome. I will try to post pictures of mine for you soon as I can. At the moment Beddy is in Victoria and we are in Tassie for a month or two. Did you manage to measure the dimensions of the motorhome externals (without drivers cabin). i.e. Height, Width, Length? I am interested to know these. Have you fixed the engine problem yet? Keep well.