BUGA Community
General Category => CF Bedford Chat => Topic started by: westy12 on March 27, 2011, 10:13:51 AM
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Gday guys hows it?
my beddies on straight gas with a 202 and trimatic. at the moment i have pretty bad fuel economy with around 20-21 litres/100kms.
i might have the oportunity to get a chev 283 with a powerglide so im wondering if my fuel economy will improve much considering the engine should work less but its only a 2 speed. most of my driving will be around town and im running a banjo diff with 3.08 center so can change that if needed. ive had my gas tuned as economical as possible a few times but to no effect. is 20L/100kms really bad or in the ballpark? i dont plan to run the V8 hard im just looking for better economy and that sweet sound!!
any help is appreciated... cheers westy
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My old 202 trimatic got similar figures on LPG with a std 4.1? diff. :(
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i was around 14l/100km with 202, 3 speed aussie, beddy diff Obviously max speed was 80kph
Dunno what i'll get out of the new 5 speed setup, but i'll keep you posted
going from 3-5 speed makes it so much easier to drive, less revving out each gear.
I woulda thought a 2 speed would rev very high at 100kph in second which i think is direct drive, so it'll be similar to 3rd in the trimatic
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Why not keep the 202 and fit a turbo 700?
A lot cheaper than a V8 conversion - you'll have to change the diff.. and everything else.
The powerglide is a strong box, but totally uneconomical. Too much extra weight with this setup.
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I have a 350/t350 3-1 henry with a 120 l gas tank in my shorty and i get around 400 -450 k,s to a tank around town and 500-550 on long trips.the weight gain is negligable (about the weight of a mythical skinny person) the powderglide is the lightest of the GM trannys except of course the old cast type .But why not have the best of both worlds and fit the 283 and a t700 ?? you would be able to sell the powerglide to a drag racer offsetting the purchase cost of the T700.BTW is the 202 on dedicated gas ? if so the dizzy should be strobed/recurved as gas needs more total advance than petrol also the plugs need to go to a hotter rating as gas burns slower if you are set up for gas/petrol then the tune has to be a comprimise resulting in lost economy .I believe the 283/T700 would be a huge step forward as you are right it wont work anywhere near as hard as the six CHeers Neil
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Totaly agree, dump the powerglide to a drag racer , put a 700 or even the 200r4h, l think thats their code. They are an overdrive unit, weigh less and chew less power. They say they are good for up to 650 hp
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day great comments thanks guys, well the only other thing i can do to improve fuel economy would be to play with diff ratios which is easy in the banjo. with the 3.08 it might be working a bit hard around town and maybe a 3.55 or 3.36 would be better. the 3.08 went in when we went around oz. my revs are around 2700-2800 at 100kms. from my understanding u have to have your accelerator further down to maintain 100kms with a lower ratio than would be needed with a higher one. which means greater vacuum which means more fuel use. so a 3.08 at 2700rpm would be LESS economical than a 3.55 at 3100rpm? can anyone confirm this? theres a whole heap more work putting in a t700 compared with the powerglide coz ive been told the powerglide and the trimatic are very similar i might not even need to modify the tailshaft whereas id need to change the lot with the t700... the 283 is already mated to the powerglide so realistically i think its the powerglide or nothing. surely with all the diff ratios available to me i can find one thats perfect for the powerglide? i think basically if gas consumption wasnt gonna get any more i would go for it. i can handle the other extra costs.. thanks heaps! westy
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hey Neil thanks for your info too, i forgot to mention that yes im on straight gas and have had it tuned as such, the plugs and the timing were all done before the big trip. would a 283 chew considerably less gas that your 350? i get 450 kms from my 90L tank with the 202 so im doing better than you but would the 283 with a powerglide make it worse? that is the big question? id hate to go to all the effort and find im chewin more gas! maybe i should go all out with the t700? is there any conceivable way to know gas consumption before i do it? formulas? surely some braininac has worked it out? eg. engine size x gearbox ratios x diff ratios - bedford weight - wind resistance / leadfoot!!! see that wasnt too hard! just wish i wasnt so bad at maths... take it easy. westy
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ya got it backwards the higher the ratio the more times your motor has to turn to maintain a given speed .my advice is still to run the T700 with a 3:23 diff ratio because it is the best comprimise as it will give you good off the line acceleration/towing and your economy would be good with the overdrive .as for fitment the mods are minimal IE: modify gearbox mount (No biggy ) and shortening of the tailshaft ,it even runs the same spline as the Traumatic so the cost would be minimal the end results would be well worth the effort in the end Cheers Neil
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Dont want to throw cold water on you guys but I would be checking with your local engineer before I put a lot of time & money into engine swaps From what ive been reading lately they might a lot tougher to get passed It would be very disappointing to go to all that trouble only to get a nockback when fronting for a engineer's cert I could be wrong but id check FIRST
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i checked with a local bloke recently. he didnt require too much.
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When I first put a 350 Chev in my van I installed a 2.75 ratio diff. with a T350 tranny (broke it) so installed a beefed up t700. When cruising with lockup engaged I found there was no difference in economy between 3rd & 4th gear (diff to tall). After much chatting with people in the know I went to a 3.5 ratio diff. This gave me a taller top gear than the 2.75 T350 combo & a better spread of ratios overall. I now have the same economy (2100 rpm at 100kph). Gets off the line much better & is fantastic for towing because I can go back to 3rd (direct) for towing up hills & I also lock & unlock the torque converter at will. I think any ratio that is taller will be to tall for the little 283 when in 4th. It was certainly to tall for my 350 when I had 7 adults on board.
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Good info Rocket thanks,
What size and aspect ratio are the rear tyres and what IS the economy.
BTW a 3.5 is not taller than a 2.75 but shorter.....the higher numerical number
is actually is a lower diff ratio thus more rpm for a given speed.
Dennis
When I first put a 350 Chev in my van I installed a 2.75 ratio diff. with a T350 tranny (broke it) so installed a beefed up t700. When cruising with lockup engaged I found there was no difference in economy between 3rd & 4th gear (diff to tall). After much chatting with people in the know I went to a 3.5 ratio diff. This gave me a taller top gear than the 2.75 T350 combo & a better spread of ratios overall. I now have the same economy (2100 rpm at 100kph). Gets off the line much better & is fantastic for towing because I can go back to 3rd (direct) for towing up hills & I also lock & unlock the torque converter at will. I think any ratio that is taller will be to tall for the little 283 when in 4th. It was certainly to tall for my 350 when I had 7 adults on board.
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I am running 235/65/14 on the rear. I am old school referring that the ratio of 2.75 is to tall & 3.5 is about perfect. I get around 650km on trips to 150 liters of LPG with the van tipping the scales at about2.4 tonne . Around 525km about town.
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Dont want to throw cold water on you guys but I would be checking with your local engineer before I put a lot of time & money into engine swaps From what ive been reading lately they might a lot tougher to get passed It would be very disappointing to go to all that trouble only to get a nockback when fronting for a engineer's cert I could be wrong but id check FIRST
The engineers certificate is another thing to consider. Minimum $500 inspection fee, plus changing everything over. I know the requirements in NSW have recently become more. Victoria is not so bad. One thing that will make your life easier is ensuring the year of the engine is the same or earlier than your van.
I still think that unless you plan on going all the way with your van, the T700 will be the way to go. For a drive in/drive out conversion, you'll pay around the $2500 mark.
The bedford really needs a V8 for adequate motivation. Just depends how much you are willing to spend.. all in the name of greater economy of course..
(http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa424/MickTroeth/markbandphotos142.jpg)
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Gday great info again guys thanks for that, so maybe i should just stick it in with the powerglide and see how the economy goes and maybe change to the t700 down the track... your economy rocket with the 350 and t700 is pretty much the same as my 202 at the mo. i get 650 kms to 140 liters gas. so with the smaller 283 i should be getting better economy than now so thats great. whether it actually happens is a different story! the guy who has the v8 is the same guy who is doing all my rust repairs... he said it would take 3 weeks, he has had it for 7 months and counting!!! talk about a backyarder! luckily a mate gave me his townace so i still have wheels. this guy is totally hopeless, id like to stick it to him and get up him but im getting all the rust cut out and a full repsray for real cheap so im trying to stay on his good side and go with it. but it is getting beyond a joke! if he ever gets it done it should look pretty good, and if i can get the v8 put in too... bonus!!! will keep yous posted... cheers luke
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Westy, it sounds to me that he might have quoted too low and now he doesn't want to do the job.
You could offer him a decent bonus if it is done in a month, and if he doesn't perform, then he probably isn't going to, and then you may need to take it elsewhere.
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Geez westy, "7 months" and "real cheap" is not a good combo mate, i think i'd be looking to get it done somewhere quicker and pay that bit extra - could end up costing a lot more in the long run if this guy doesnt do it properly.
just my 2 cents worth
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Heya Luke,
Im with Mezzmo on this mate....believe me when i say, dont trust ANYONE....7mnths is way to long, and yeah as someone commented, it sounds like the V8 might be a stalling tactic:( Have you checked on the van to see what progress has been made? It took me 3 mnths to find out that my van was sitting on blocks outside a garage in the rain, before the "Mechanic" informed me he hadnt done ANYTHING....and my van had no windows, and was in primer....
Everytime i pay full price for something, people say "oh you got ripped off" or "thats way too much" but from personal experience....ive only been ripped of by people who said they could do it cheaper:( And that includes recent work on my new car:(
I dont have the answer....as my $1k and she can be registered (grrrr) has turned into $6K and she is in worse shape than she started....and some 3 or so years later:(
Even when i decided to do it myself, booked and paid for a welding course...the bloody school calls me 2 weeks later, and says they are full??? ahahaha...oh me oh my..
Anyway....GO CHECK ON IT!!! And push him....he either is legite, and he will understand your concern, or he isnt and you will find out sooner rather than later. Any reasonable person should understand why you would be pushing for an end date:)
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gday guys yeah i agree totally but what can u do? im not going to take it back off him then spend 4 grand to get done what he will charge me 1200 (if he ever finishes it!!) ive paid him 600 and he says hell only charge me 600 more to finish it... i offered him 1000 if he would have it done by easter, havent heard back from him! he swore on is kids LIFE that it would be done by easter. i sorta knew it wouldnt. first he said done by xmas, then oz day, now easter. well as i see it all its costing me is 600 to have a second car registered. but if he ever finishes it ill be saving thousands... i got quoted 4 grand to fully replace the gutters which were totally rusted. hes doing that, aswell as any other rust he sees and doing a full respray, all for 1200! sounds too good to be true right? well i guess it is! to be fair to him he has been in and out of hospital over those 7 months and his health is not good. i hope he holds on long enough to finish it thats all. whenever i speak to him he sounds legit and i think hes relatively honest but hes just a hopeless case. ill ring him after easter and see what his next excuse was, but he wont be getting the extra money i offered.
PATIENCE IS A VIRTUE!!!!
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PATIENCE IS A VIRTUE!!!!
If you are a vulture waiting for a feed
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My rust and paint guy....almost exactly the same...he ended up quitting the job after his last hospital visit as "his lungs were no good" almost same price too.
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Had a Transhit van painted last year. bought the paint myself,
paint alone ( + thinners etc ) cost $700.00.
Mark.
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well it pains me to admit that ive been had!!! u were right kirk, i was hoping u werent, but u were...
i guess ive got loser or gullible written on my forehead!
i never thought someone would or could blatantly lie to my face. how can people do this?
there was always an excuse as to why i couldnt go see the van and it was miles away too so not a trip i wanted to take often, but he told me he had done most of it, and i believed him.
oh how he talked up how good it was going to be, not only fix the rusty gutters but any other rust he saw.. and he had the midnight blue paint aswell. easy as that. and he has the nerve to say he has the chev 283 there that he will sell me cheap and help me put in!!!
i know he has not been well and been in and out of hospital, and is back there now so i now know its never going to happen and it was too good to be true!
i recently found out where the van was, in a truck yard, jumped the fence and saw that the van is exactly the same as i gave it to him. not even started on!
7 months later!!!
nearly 8 months actually.
oh well, live and learn. if something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
i gave him $600 and basicaly lost a years rego, but on the good side a mate gave me his townace van that i could acually make money on so im not too bitter.
so where does that leave me? well i still have to confront him and hear his excuse as to why he never touched it, and lied to me, but cant get onto him at the moment his phone is disconnected. surprise surprise.
then ive got to get the van back, blocked in by a truck and the battery is flat so ill have to work that out. the truck owner is his brother who i tracked down.
then im back at square one. the rust in my gutters is really bad and spreading to the roof and walls. it really needs doing. back to that 4 grand quote? ouch! there was a thread here earlier about someone needing a good panel beater in melbs.. was that u kirk? i even thought at the time of mentioning my guy!! ha ha! thinking of doing a welding course or just paying a guy to show me some tips for a day. but ive got nowhere to do it where i live which sux. from memory that panelbeater search came up empty. relatively good, relatively cheap guys are non existant i think.
oh well, ill get there in the end.
this is my story. thanks for reading. westy the gullible!!
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Dont feel too bad Westy it happend to me years ago & cost me heaps to get the car back then had to do the job myself learnt welding by trial & error & painting out of american hot rod took me ages but I got there Keep your chin up
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fff, westy sorry to hear that , wished-ed I lived in melb im hanging out to do paid work on beddys got a medical clearance yesterday , so now I just need to find customers and a workshop BUT I RECKON IT'LL BE 1 JOB AT A TIME that way guys can be confident that works being done.
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Now that sounds good to me Craig!!!! ;D ;D
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BUGA Westy
But on the bright side, if you teach yourself to do the work it will be very rewarding.
Warren
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Sorry to hear about your experience, Westy. Unfortunately in my experience of old cars and bikes, I have found that 90% of people in the automotive trade are full of shit, and cannot deliver decent work for a decent price.
You have to either learn to do it yourself, which requires a large investment in tools and workspace, or pay a quality tradesman (they are out there).
This is that other thread you were thinking of:
http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=2&topic=2765.0 (http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=2&topic=2765.0)
Good luck, and keep us posted.
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hey westy, thats a shitter mate, two choices left really .... do it yourself (very worthwhile learning and investing in tools) ..... or start it up and keep driving it like most of us realists do until something else comes up, you should be right for another 10 - 20 years before it starts disintergrating .. your not a loser mate, try the other 'L' word = learned ;)
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well it pains me to admit that ive been had!!! u were right kirk, i was hoping u werent, but u were...
i guess ive got loser or gullible written on my forehead!
i never thought someone would or could blatantly lie to my face. how can people do this?
there was always an excuse as to why i couldnt go see the van and it was miles away too so not a trip i wanted to take often, but he told me he had done most of it, and i believed him.
oh how he talked up how good it was going to be, not only fix the rusty gutters but any other rust he saw.. and he had the midnight blue paint aswell. easy as that. and he has the nerve to say he has the chev 283 there that he will sell me cheap and help me put in!!!
i know he has not been well and been in and out of hospital, and is back there now so i now know its never going to happen and it was too good to be true!
i recently found out where the van was, in a truck yard, jumped the fence and saw that the van is exactly the same as i gave it to him. not even started on!
7 months later!!!
nearly 8 months actually.
oh well, live and learn. if something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
i gave him $600 and basicaly lost a years rego, but on the good side a mate gave me his townace van that i could acually make money on so im not too bitter.
so where does that leave me? well i still have to confront him and hear his excuse as to why he never touched it, and lied to me, but cant get onto him at the moment his phone is disconnected. surprise surprise.
then ive got to get the van back, blocked in by a truck and the battery is flat so ill have to work that out. the truck owner is his brother who i tracked down.
then im back at square one. the rust in my gutters is really bad and spreading to the roof and walls. it really needs doing. back to that 4 grand quote? ouch! there was a thread here earlier about someone needing a good panel beater in melbs.. was that u kirk? i even thought at the time of mentioning my guy!! ha ha! thinking of doing a welding course or just paying a guy to show me some tips for a day. but ive got nowhere to do it where i live which sux. from memory that panelbeater search came up empty. relatively good, relatively cheap guys are non existant i think.
oh well, ill get there in the end.
this is my story. thanks for reading. westy the gullible!!
Hi hun,
Im NOT a fan of any Injustices >:(,and asked my Brother who is a 1st Class welder& a kind brother(not working at this moment and cutting rust out of my beddy) who said he is more than happy to help you in a crash Day course and teach u what u need to know so u can invest in tools and do it yourself if u want to???
We live In Tullamarine way,see yr in Melb..If u want to contact me if u still need a lesson or two ...for Free ofcorse!
Cheers
Shelly & Wayne(Bro-) ;D
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Thats a very generious offer pooch and Bro
Warren
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hey guys thanks for the support! Shelley and Wayne thanks so much for the offer i would love to take you up on it but not for free how bout i help out with your van while learning to weld/panelbeat. i can sand back bog or do whatever to help im pretty mechanically minded. ill drive my van to get ur opinion if thats cool. always great to meet fellow beddy drivers!!
i almost bought that black swb in newcastle that was on here the other day for $5000 but i was too late. im prepared to spend 3 or more to get mine done and for another 2 i couldve bought that one and still have mine to boj up and sell. im sure i would get 2 for mine. anyway i missed it.
so an update on the van, i got it back and stored at a mates house. ive been around to where he lives twice and hes never there. apparently hes been hiding at his folks and im not the only one he owes money to! got a random text off him the other day saying he will pay me back the money, wont hold my breath tho....
im over it now anyway.
so Shelley my number is 0416643743 let me know when yous will next be working on the van, i work most saturdays but will take one or two off to help with ur van and get some tips.. that would be awesome thanks so much!!!
take it easy westy
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Westy,
Give me that blokes number,ILL get yr money back,that stuff just shits me to put it nice! >:(,HOW do they sleep at night?
I stumbled across yr post as i dont know what engine to put in mine as the 186 ATE petrol like u would not believe driving it back from Qld,& ive been given a 202 and HOPE thats a good choice??...then read your 202 / Chev post which made me sad and ANGRY at the same time..I said to Wayne "read this",thats sooo wrong..can u help him,Wayne said YEAH ofcorse!
...Id be lost with out my mechanical Bro steve & Welder extraordinaire bro wayne,I am a lucky sister wn it comes to this project beddy of mine& Help!
My bro's r between jobs at the moment so thr home most days scratchn thr heads at my beddy lookn at the list to get thru of thr darling sisters demands,lol!
So wn ever u want to come for yr crash course,hopefully nice weather day to do it outside...Waynes kool with that he said,ill call you tomorrow to make a day!
And you DONT have to help with mine at all, i have two great brothers helpn me,just bring yr Beddy and wayne n u can go from there.
Warning: I WILL ofcorse show off my interior iiiiiiiiiiiiii have been doing myself..>>>WARREN on here LOVES my lepoard print doors he said,LOL!! :P
Cheers Westy, chat tomorrow hey!
Shell
P.SS: WARREN...I CANT SEE THE GALLERY ON HERE for the last few days,whats gone yr wrong..is it something i have done..I cant find the 7pages of gallery pics of memebers Beddys at all,its so weird,has anyone else lost the Gallery dept of Pics on here??? HELP WARREN!!! :)
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There has been some issues with the forum software and Shane has revereted to this format for the time being.
I'm not sure when we will get the gallery back.
Oh and as for lepords skin - mmmeeeeeooowwwwwppppuuuukkkeee
Warren
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I miss lookn at the pics..Interesting ideas n chats! :(
And Warren..HISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS,lol..Thhhht Hsssssssssssssssss!
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I miss lookn at the pics..Interesting ideas n chats! :(
P.SS: WARREN...I CANT SEE THE GALLERY ON HERE for the last few days,whats gone yr wrong..is it something i have done..I cant find the 7pages of gallery pics of memebers Beddys at all,its so weird,has anyone else lost the Gallery dept of Pics on here??? HELP WARREN!!!
And Warren..HISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS,lol..Thhhht Hsssssssssssssssss!
Go to home page and click on any photo on the right hand side, this will give you access to all the Galleries / you will end up in the gallery the photo belongs to but then click on the gallery button above the main menu and this will take you to the public gallery. I am sure most people know this, but there might be a few who don't.........
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Hey Bas,
Thanks for yr help, yeah i know thats whats normally there to click onto and find easily but for the last week anyones pics have totally disappeared,gone. I cant upload any of my pics in my profile due to Probs warren said they are now having on the site!
There is no gallery word on here to click onto anymore,theres no 7pages of everyone's photos of thr Beddys, all gone..Warren said they had to revert back to the old style website while they fix this gallery problem we normally have and look at alot!
Just have to be patient till its fixed..thats all!
When i click onto 'Home" button,all that appears are topics down one sideleft side like:Comment,Technical,Classifieds,Websites,Forum Stats,User online..Click ontro annny of them and NO gallery dept shown at all?
Warrens now explained the probs they are having so now i know im not going CrAzY after all,lol!
Cheers
Shell
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:-\ interesting I can still click on the gallery page and they all come up.
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Yep.... mine come up now as well.... ;D ;D
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Are you guys using fire fox or IE ??
Im using IE and cant see them
Warren
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Are you guys using fire fox or IE ??
Im using IE and cant see them
Warren
Using IE (9), the odd time they don't load, but seldom. but do use the BACK button alot.......... :)
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The internet is best viewed without Internet Explorer :D
welcome back Baz
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You've got to go to the Home page www.buga.com.au (http://www.buga.com.au) to see the gallery at the top of the page
and also to see the forum listings etc on the left hand side.
hope that helps
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I go straight into the forum page not the home page, thats why I don't see them :(
Hopefully Shane will soon sort it.
Warren
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Ohhhhhhhhhh that sux,
so why am i not seeing the gallery pics anymore and all u are,how weird..warren did say thr wr site probs&revertyed to the old style site n yet u guys are seeing the gallery pics and i are not,i miss it too,my fave part of coming on here is checkn out allthoes pages of beddy members vans???
POO! :(
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P.s:
Im on fire fox shane and i cant see them anymore?
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You've got to go to the Home page www.buga.com.au (http://www.buga.com.au) to see the gallery at the top of the page
and also to see the forum listings etc on the left hand side.
hope that helps
WORBY THANKU..it NOW works,lol,I found the bloody gallery pics again-Phew..what the hell was i doing,..."shut up u blokes,im NOT blonde" either! :P
I was logging inn then another page would appear and i would try to find it from there,never could i find the gallery pics anymore?
Thanx worbs n warren,YAY! xx
P.s: Just hope i dont get lost in here agaaaain,lol!
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"shut up u blokes,im NOT blonde"
But theres a BLOND inside trying to get out ;D
Warren