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Technical => Driveline => Topic started by: outriding on November 26, 2010, 10:44:54 PM

Title: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: outriding on November 26, 2010, 10:44:54 PM
I'm thinking about getting some drop spindles made to lower the front end.
I have some questions:  ???
1- Should I have them made from scratch?
2- Should I have the stock spindles modified?
3- Are the spindles the same on mk1s, facelifts and mk2s?
4- How much drop are the ones available in AU?
5- Any recommendations?


Can someone post up a photo of a drop spindle?
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: outriding on November 26, 2010, 10:48:49 PM
By the way, this is how high the van is with stock 195CR14 tires:

(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/1593/dsc01763d.jpg)
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: petrolhead on November 26, 2010, 11:09:06 PM
SCARY not something I would like to try. Whats your life worth? People that make dropped spindles have to go through rigourous testing to make sure they are[size=20pt]"SAFE"[/size] even after all this they can still fail without warning, this has happened with a certain brand
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: obsession on November 26, 2010, 11:21:52 PM
will post some pix tomorrow
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: vintageholden on November 26, 2010, 11:57:45 PM
http://www.rodshop.com.au/stub_axles/stub_axles.htm (http://www.rodshop.com.au/stub_axles/stub_axles.htm)

http://www.stubtech.com.au/products/dropped-stub-axles.html (http://www.stubtech.com.au/products/dropped-stub-axles.html)

Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: outriding on November 27, 2010, 12:47:26 AM
SCARY not something I would like to try. Whats your life worth? People that make dropped spindles have to go through rigourous testing to make sure they are[size=20pt]"SAFE"[/size] even after all this they can still fail without warning, this has happened with a certain brand

I understand what your saying. I am not going to make them myself, I will have someone qualified to make them.

It would be interesting to see pics of those ones that failed that your talking about. That way we can identify the week spot and reinforce it!!
The final product should be stronger than the stock.
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: Dano on November 27, 2010, 01:28:33 AM
I have written a bit of a letter to Stub Tech , requesting a new line for the Beddie , see how we go, i'll let you know
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: vintageholden on November 27, 2010, 05:56:28 AM
contacted stubtech...they sent me this

Hi Keith,
   We don't make drop axles for CF Bedfords but many people have adapted our
Holden axles in,  from memory (and its over 6 years since I had anything to
do with Bedfords) the top arm had the Holden balljoint fitted and the axles
were reamed to take the Bedford bottom joint.  Commodore brakes fit straight
onto our axles and were much better than the Bedford brakes.  I can now only
supply the axles at $775.00 a pair including GST and the rest would be up to
you.
Regards
Rod

Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: outriding on November 27, 2010, 06:05:16 AM
That's 565 euros...  :o not cheap at all...
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: ben on November 28, 2010, 01:21:19 PM
seriously consider a different way of lowering beddy.

here is what i will do when it comes time i want to lower a beddy,

cutinto the chassis, lower body down, re weld, strenthen with something substacial, put lwb springs in to stiffen up front.


yoy could get shorter springs, then move wishbones to compensate. plenty of ways.

or... graft a different front end into yor van.

jack up your van and stare at it for 12 hours and im sure youll think of plenty of other ways.

stub axels should not be tampered with and i would look at a way to do it while using orig ones.



ben
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: Merlin on November 28, 2010, 04:34:43 PM
graft Jag control arms to the bedi subframe far better ride/handling stub is higher up the post big killer brakes & holden stud pattern what more could you want. Craig posted picks of mine awhile back
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: vintageholden on November 28, 2010, 07:35:38 PM
any details on how to do it...
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: Merlin on November 28, 2010, 09:04:13 PM
I COULD tell ya but then i'd have ta kill ya  ;) as i said theres some pics on here somewhere . I spent over 360 hours on developing it . it has 3 track widths and is fully adjustable but you dont have to bo so elaborate
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: outriding on November 29, 2010, 09:17:38 PM
seriously consider a different way of lowering beddy.

here is what i will do when it comes time i want to lower a beddy,

cutinto the chassis, lower body down, re weld, strenthen with something substacial, put lwb springs in to stiffen up front.


yoy could get shorter springs, then move wishbones to compensate. plenty of ways.

or... graft a different front end into yor van.

jack up your van and stare at it for 12 hours and im sure youll think of plenty of other ways.

stub axels should not be tampered with and i would look at a way to do it while using orig ones.



ben

That is a whole lot of work ben!

Why would you spend endless hours of work hacking up the frame when you can achieve the same result in a simple axle swap?

In the vw bus world the drop axle is a comun practise.

I see no problem as long as the new or modified axle is made correctly.
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: Dano on November 30, 2010, 01:25:24 AM
OK, lads, got a phone call this morning from Rod Hadfield himself .he spent 2 days ,last w/end finding all or most of his paperwork/notes/jigs for the bedford drop spindles. long story short..... he is prepared to do a run of 6 pairs this run,more of more wanted...

BUT  we need to let him know numbers asap as these will take afew months to complete ...and they are included in the run of approx 150 other spindles    WHICH THEY ARE POORING? NEXT MONTH...

i need to write a full post to explain more but don't have time this sec....sorry....

COSTS..... virgin hubbs $770
                   plates,setting in,machining,welding,drilling,tapping,freight etc, again I'll explain more ,(hopefully tomorrow) roughly the same, soooo, around $14-1500 mark. these are run from the same mill as holdens/ford current mill and will be rta approved and certified with all papers and docs.
Dan

Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: vintageholden on November 30, 2010, 01:50:09 AM
wow.....

i dont want a set that bad..
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: Sweet Shock on November 30, 2010, 08:41:00 AM
Any body got any pics with a bed with drop axles
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: obsession on November 30, 2010, 02:52:44 PM
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x234/craigc327/borrielives013.jpg)
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: Sweet Shock on November 30, 2010, 03:46:03 PM
Have you got a pic underneath pete
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: obsession on November 30, 2010, 04:21:13 PM
yes it is an interesting set up the top wishbone has been shifted outwards to fix camber Im not sure about it yet but it did turn ok .
having a drama up loading it to ph bkt at the moment.
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: vintageholden on November 30, 2010, 09:35:42 PM
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x234/craigc327/borrielives013.jpg)

i thought it would be lower??
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: obsession on November 30, 2010, 10:59:03 PM
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x234/craigc327/30112010.jpg)
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: vintageholden on December 01, 2010, 03:57:57 AM
who moved it outwards and why..
and what does it do for the steering etc....
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: ben on December 01, 2010, 07:51:41 AM
Quote
seriously consider a different way of lowering beddy.

here is what i will do when it comes time i want to lower a beddy,

cutinto the chassis, lower body down, re weld, strenthen with something substacial, put lwb springs in to stiffen up front.


yoy could get shorter springs, then move wishbones to compensate. plenty of ways.

or... graft a different front end into yor van.

jack up your van and stare at it for 12 hours and im sure youll think of plenty of other ways.

stub axels should not be tampered with and i would look at a way to do it while using orig ones.



ben


That is a whole lot of work ben!

Why would you spend endless hours of work hacking up the frame when you can achieve the same result in a simple axle swap?

In the vw bus world the drop axle is a comun practise.

I see no problem as long as the new or modified axle is made correctly.

i dont think youll find the axel swap a simple one..

you get drop axels and you still have no adjustment to fix any camber control issues so you need your springs to be spot on otherwise your back to wearing tyres out again.. and your locked into the drop of whatever the drop axel allows. if they are the same as the ones obsesion has then your gunna have to modify the front end anyway.

ben
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: Dano on December 01, 2010, 11:37:56 AM
ok peoples, got some more info this morning, and he's found more of the jigs etc..... sorry for the 1/2 info just bear with me another day or two as i'm "dealing with builders and signing contracts for the end of month/nov.... should all be done today then will sort a post .........

price looks like $925inc gst but + freeaight a pair ... agian more info later....Dano

pls tell other vanners/web sites etc as want to make this viable for him/us , he has spent the last 3/4 days sorting this info for us and remember it was more than ten yr ago when he did the last batch, so to find gather all the info and peopls again ......a huge effort for us. ;)
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: able on December 01, 2010, 12:16:32 PM
has the guy ever done hq conversion kits like CRS used too? i thought i would ask seen it was something he used to be into....

not all of us have the money or want the hoppers conversions.
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: vintageholden on December 01, 2010, 02:40:09 PM
yoy could get shorter springs, then move wishbones to compensate. plenty of ways......

how low can you go and is there a jig....how do you know where to move the wishbones to???
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: ben on December 01, 2010, 04:53:05 PM
trial and error i think lol. if i were doing it this way i would elongate holes with the plasma cutter, then move to where you think, tighten them up drop the van check camber then. if it needs adjustment adjust untill you get it right. then weld new plates in ovber the top of the elongated holes so you have new holes to bolt to. but i wouldnt do it this way.

why do eople want to lower their vehicle anyway? ground clearance is awesome you can run over wombats and keep driving! not like the medium sized dawoo i saw hit one it took out the radiator half the sump and musta damaged trany also cause there was 3 lines of coolant, engine oil and tranz fuild on the road for about 100 metres. then the car was stopped naturally. i also saw the oil filter in the middle of the road.. that cant be good:( 
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: Rogue Trooper on December 02, 2010, 05:24:15 AM
Try the ozrodders website for this type of thing. There's a mine of information about all this sort of stuff. Some of them get quite 'passionate' in their discussions too.
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: gazza on December 04, 2010, 08:22:27 AM
nice van mods i like the small door idea ive allways liked the clam shell set up like the mazda has !!! lower is cool what about air bags has any one used them yet??
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: outriding on December 04, 2010, 09:40:02 AM
...
price looks like $925inc gst but + freeaight a pair ... agian more info later....Dano
...


ya thats too expensive for me, and also they will have to fit on the stock hubs.

i am still going to find out if I can get them made locally at a good price.
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: Dano on December 04, 2010, 03:18:30 PM
ok, folks here goes, again sorry for the delay but thanks for your patience....

ROD HADFEILD......WAS CASTLEMAINE ROD SHOP....BUT HAS SOLD HIS BUSINESS SOME TIME AGO.

when he spoke to me i did my absolute best to "keep up" but as we all know that can some time be a mission in istelf.

"The bedford stub axle has a "pitch" of 13 degrees where as a standard car only has between 7-9 deg. this is why the top wish bones have to be altered."
They were originally designed by Bill Mussett an employee of Rod's in around early 80's but unfortuanately the late Bill has passed and Rod has done his best to source as many notes and memories as he posiibly can,i think the only template left to find is the relocation of the top wish bone pivot point (but we have Craig's beddie to disect )
ok, Rod has a standing order of 50 pair with the manufacturers of holden/ford stubaxles mill or what ever /engineering shop/ cnc machine etc (i'll clarify later) but the order/ mill only runs this line once a year....and begins on the 15th -12th 2010. In this run he has to predetermin what he's going to make for eg; HR , Torana, HK , sooo if anyone wants a set we have to let him know asap.
Rod uses for this conversion Toranastub axle , then his process begins, he has plates to jig up welding to do , setting in , machining, drilling, tapping all piece by piece, so I'm sure you can appreciate the time and effort  he has to put in and for it to be correct let alone, legal, safe, and RTA APPROVED. Can you imagine the responsibility he has on his head.
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: Dano on December 04, 2010, 03:42:49 PM
He mentioned the primary stubs costing $770 before he starts, but not sure now that the price has come down, in the kit he sends (or has mentioned) the new plate for HQ lower ball joint to replace the CF and a shaped rod to re-enforce the lower wishbone, of coarse he can do this for you but
1) has to have ur wish bones
2) charge for it
3) freight
4) Ball joints, so maybe that's where $14-1500 comes in.... we'll find out more as we go.

(2nd set of MY notes) "trying to keep up"

 "The costomer will need to weld in plate for the new ball joint and a strenthening rod to the lower wish bone " as mentioned before. " But i can Now do them for $925 inc GST but plus freight.

REMEMBERINGTHESE ARE RTA APPROVED AND COME WITH PAPERS


and he has "out of the blue' spent three days searching and finding the info and jigs/templates etc for us it would be a great loss for this to end as a bitter pill.

He said if we can find the demand for say 6 pair it would be good , I myself said I'm interested in a pair and hope to make this worth while for you/him.
sooo I'm not screaming the sales pitch but just asking you to reconsider the work and effort required, + something being made/HAND made,just for our pride and joy.
Dano
Title: Re: custom made drop spindles?
Post by: Dano on December 08, 2010, 08:06:08 AM
I'll give him a buzz tomorrow any last question's?
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