BUGA Community
Technical => Driveline => Topic started by: Ryanstf on November 05, 2010, 08:24:24 AM
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Hey all,
Im looking to find out if there's a conversion kit to put a commodore v6 in my Beddy van?
im new to bedfords and not much of a mechanic so im doing my home work
ill also need whatever steering rack stuff to change her to power steering aswell
she currently has a 3 speed red 202 with a 345 diff
thanks!
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Try a search. George (Bedfordcrazy) got one of these but it wasn't cheap and he wasn't very impressed with what he got.
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From memory there was a company in NSW specialising in drive in - drive out V6 conversions, using the Commodore gear. Pretty sure they'd done a couple of Bedfords. I'll see if I can dig up the details, this was a few years ago.
Power steering has been covered here, do a search. You need a late model Transit rack.
Edit - it's here: http://www.v6conversions.com.au/BEDFORD.HTM (http://www.v6conversions.com.au/BEDFORD.HTM)
Is this the kit that George got? The cost is high, yeah. But consider the cost and headache of figuring it out - esp. if you're not a mechanic.
The V6 conversion offers good bang for the buck when you consider the cost of the donor motor and box - ie pretty low from any decent wrecker.
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I remember seeing an ad for those guys a few years back
kit was about 1800 from memory...i lost the details..Doh!
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There was a guy in Tenterfield or Glen Innis that did a kit for about $1200 a couple of years ago, I found him just by doing a Google search try that.
Cheers
Joe
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HOLDEN COMMODORE V6 3.8LTR EFI
INTO
BEDFORD VAN.
V6 Conversions have developed a conversion kit to allow the fitting of the Commodore V6 EFI engine and T700 auto or T5 manual gearbox, from VN through to VX to the Bedford.
To comply with Australian emission laws the engine must have been manufactured the same year or later than the vehicle. The engine must also have all of the emission components connected, including the catalytic converter. The engine must also be run on unleaded fuel or LPG.
In Australia an Engineers report is required after the conversion has been completed. Contact your local RTA office for a list of Engineers.
CONVERSION INFORMATION.
The kit is designed to use the original engine mount rubbers and with this conversion you can only have power steering or airconditioning, not both. with the gearbox mount being a bolt in using the VN gearbox rubber mount.
You will need to obtain the following components -
* The Commodore V6 engine complete with the main engine wiring harness, the ECM computer and memcal. Other accessories such as the map sensor, purge canister, air cleaner & ducting, airconditioning compressor & power steering pump, engine pipes & catalytic converter, external fuel pump & damper.
The Series One engines have two crankshaft bolt patterns and starter motor types, the manual transmission type and the automatic transmission type. For this reason they are not interchangeable.
However, Series Two and later engines have the same crankshaft so they can be converted from automatic to manual by fitting a flywheel and changing the memcal. This only applies to VN and VP engines, VR and later engines have different computers and wiring looms for automatic and manual.
The standard Commodore in tank, fuel pump cannot be used. We recommend you use an external EFI Commodore V6/V8 pump (Ashdowns part no: 27-28753).
You can leave your original fuel tank in place by using an EFI fuel pump and modifying the filler neck by way of a return line and restrictor so it will only accept an UNLEADED nozzle, or you can fit a filler neck from the later model.
The Commodore does not have an engine driven fan and the Commodore electric fan and shroud will not fit in the engine bay. An electric fan is required, we recommend that you use a Davies Craig DC16 or similar.
The wiring kit we have available covers from the VN - VY. It comes in 2 parts, the under bonnet loom with all the relays and fuses and the under dash loom which incorporates an engine trouble light. The wiring kit plugs into the original engine and gearbox loom leaving only 6 wires to be tapped into your vehicles original loom, which are - alternator light, oil light, temp light or gauge, ignition, starter & tacho.
Our speedo kit comes in 2 forms, an in line speed sensor that fits the T700 or T5 and your original cable to suit VN - VP, or an electronic speedo from VR - VY instillations.
KIT CONTENTS.
* sump & oil pickup
* dipstick tube
* engine mounts
* gearbox mount
* wiring kit
* speedo kit
* engine tunnel templates
* a set of instructions
Kit price - $1,470.00
OPTIONAL EXTRAS
EFI fuel pump - $240.00
16” thermo fan - $200.00
Idler kit VN - VR - $150.00
“ “ VS - VT - $175.00 this is to be used if not running power steering.
Body Control Simulator VR - VS - $300.00
“ “ “ VT - VX - $400.00
VT - VX wiring looms are $25.00 extra on normal wiring looms.
If you have any further questions not covered in this information sheet please contact us for further information.
Website design and graphics
© Jamie Gardner 2003
Pat Gardner V6 Conversion Specialist
Moree, NSW, Australia
Tel: 02 67511243
E-mail: v6conversions@bigpond.com
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Thoughts On the Conversion Kit ?? worth trying out?? or stickin with the red motor?
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Hey KGG86, if you want to go V6 for a reliable and powerful motor, then go for it.
As for the kit, it is a quick way to get 70% of the parts that you need, you still need to buy a new gearbox mount, and that was about $80. As for what i found wrong with the kit, well one of the reasons we bought the kit was that we thought it would save us hours trying to work out where the new mount posts go, the size of the cut out for the motor, wrong we had to work it all out ourselves. I guess what was disapointing was, for the cost of $1,500-00 the instructions were shit, i had to ring pat and ask him to email me the original pics, they send you a sheet of pics that are so small and unreadable, here is what i would suggest to make the kit ideal and worth the money:
1. $2-00 A paper or cardboard template to lay on floor to trace around - with reference points.
2. $2-00 A template for the Engine mount posts on crossmember.
3. $2-00 Original photos on a CD disc.
4. $5-00 Assume the people buying the kits are not mechanics, so a detailed booklet would'nt hurt.I have a really good mechanic that is switched on, and even he had trouble working out what to do. As for the hole for the engine, we had to lower the motor down and cut the floor as we lowered, very time consuming, what would of worked was to trace a template and cut and drop the motor in, instead we had to trim, try trim try. For the price of some firm cardbord, tossed into the large boxes the kit came in, would of helped. What we found was the company taking shortcuts. mmm. ??? ???
So guys if you think your buying a kit with detailed instructions, your not, if you are resourcefull you can buy the components separately, and maybe save yourself some money, having said that, the sump and gearbox crossmember are really well build, solid and the wiring is well done.
At the end of the day, i am going to be doing templates of all the cut outs as we go, so those that want them i can send you a template when we are done.
george. Yep the fun of custom beddies. ;D
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Mental note: :-\ Obtain copy of template from my mate George when he is done with his conversion... ;D ;D
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I’ve given the whole hole for the engine thing some thought.
Given that you are going to be welding the floor at some stage anyway, my thought would be to cut the whole original floor section out say 10 mm inside the frame rail back to behind (or Just in front - depending on how much clearance is needed) the gear shift hole.
Now you have one big gaping hole, making access to the motor easy, and four square edges to work from, put the engine in place, making sure it is as far sideways toward the passenger side as possible.
Once you have your engine fixed in its final position and you’re ready to fabricate the cover, mark out spots say 50 mm apart along the floor opening, and in the same place on the piece of floor you previously cut out.
With a set square (or tape measure) measure form the floor out to the motor, subtract the amount of clearance you want (say 20 mm) and transfer that measurement to the cut out floor piece, continue to do this for each spot until you have gone all the way around.
With the marks as a guide trim the cut out section, you may wish to straighten out the cut out lines to make the fabricating the top cover easier, at this stage you could make the raised sides that the top cover will sit on, possibly even tack welding them in place.
Once you have the cut out trimmed it can be placed back into the hole in the floor and welded back in.
Then you can move on to making the cover.
While this might seem like more work, overall I think it would be quicker as it not only allows better access to setting up the motor, you only have to trim once.
Warren
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gday mate theres a bloke selling a v6 conversion with a shell in vic, where you from?
alex
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Hey warren, good in theory, but we found that when we cut the minimum of floor out we ended up with a weak and flexible bit of floor. Because you have to cut into the stamped portion that gives you your strength, you need to replace or fabricate new braces, we are building a ridgid frame around our opening. The last thing you want is the floor flexing as you drive, and i dont want a failed stamp from my engineer, so i am going the extra mile and making the floor as it was prior to hacking it up. Keep in mine guys i am building a show van, so when people look over it, under it i want it to look like it came from the bedford factory, not as if my mechanic was jack the ripper.
The end of the day all this conversation could of been avoided if the moree guys had of made a sheetmetal template b4 slotting the motor back in for the last time on one of their builds, then use the metal template to create cardboard ones, cheap as and shows they care about every van looking good. Its ok V6 Moree, i will do it for you, and charge only for my time and materials, $0-00 ;) ;) D ;D ??? ??? ???
george.
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yeh weve got a van here. it has box tube under the floor around where its cut. it was done by castlemain rod shop. simple easy.
also got another van here the has sheet metal folded upward which the engine cover sits over.. also enginered.
many ways to brace it.
ben
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Yep, Ben mine has the bent up lip, soild as, yet very simpley done>>>>>>>>>>
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i used 25 x 25 x 2 angle iron to do my lip
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i used 25 x 25 x 2 angle iron to do my lip
interesting... will aluminum do or will it cause corrosion?
did you lay it on top of the floor or place the flat under the floor lip?
did you pop-rivet, bolt or wield?
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i used 25 x 25 x 2 angle iron to do my lip
I did the same however it was 3mm I used. I also used 25mm box section underneath and welded the crap out of it. Then I welded some 32mm x 3mm flat around the sides to tidy it up. Was a bit paranoid with the amount of steel I had to cut out of the floor. Solid as a brick sh*thouse now.
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d16/Rogue1234/Engine/EngineBayCut640x480.jpg)
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interesting... will aluminum do or will it cause corrosion?
did you lay it on top of the floor or place the flat under the floor lip?
did you pop-rivet, bolt or wield?
steel would be stronger for this, I put it up from under the floor and welded it in. sealer and underseal underneath and light skim of bog and paint on top
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No not looking for conversion kit, but got the V6 VN motor and gear box out of the vn, hung it over the spare front end, and noticed that the oil drain plug looks like it might be hard to get at to drain the oil, does that mean the drain plug needs to be re positioned to the rear of the sump.
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i have just had my sump cut down cost me 80$ but i had the bowl part moved to the back so you can mount the motor lower and dont have it to high in the cab plus easer to fit over the cf cross member plus havent needed to cut sweet f all out off the old girl any good engineer should be able to do that for you took mine 2 hours
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Don't forget you will need to modify the oil pick up and dipstick :)
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The kit i got had a new sump and oil pick-up and tube in it, the old sump is on the shelf.
george.
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Is it true that An Engineer's Certificate is now required for all vehicle modifications. even if ur keeping the beddy a 6 ??
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if it is 90% of west Australian beddies are in trouble.
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someone was trying to tell me that i might technically need a cert because i replaced a 186 with a 202????
that is a joke! it takes the same engine mounts!!!
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most garages wouldnt know the difference if it jumped up and kicked them in the nuts
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hey able using your "same engine mounts" theory we should be able to fit a big block chev then coz they use the same mounts ;D ;D ;) the usual rule of thumb is more that 10%power increase needs engineer aproval Cheers Neil
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Hey Guys, i might be wrong, but the one thing you may need to do is have the new engine number put onto your paper work, if you ever get a check done by the cops at a roadside checkpoint, and the numbers dont match, it could be a long day trying to convince them that it is not stolen. My understanding is if you go to a v8 or make a structual change then you need and engineer to rubber stamp it.
george.
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Hey Guys, i might be wrong, but the one thing you may need to do is have the new engine number put onto your paper work, if you ever get a check done by the cops at a roadside checkpoint, and the numbers dont match, it could be a long day trying to convince them that it is not stolen. My understanding is if you go to a v8 or make a structual change then you need and engineer to rubber stamp it.
george.
That gives me a slight hassle coz the LWB 308 we bought has had the block decked and all I've got are nice clean machining marks where the engine number was stamped.
I've heard you can use x-ray to see the original numbers? Where the hell would I get THAT done ???
Garry
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Over here in Vic, we have to get a VP number from Vicroads if we don't have a engine or chassis number. The VP stands for Victorian Police. So you will have to chase your rego branch, or the police
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Or speak to an engineer, they should have all the right answers, you wont get a straight answer from the transport dept. lol ;)
george