BUGA Community
Technical => Driveline => Disk Brakes => Topic started by: Rothu on April 10, 2010, 04:31:45 PM
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Okay. If anyone EVER tells you it's ok to machine down the front stub axles to fit holden bearings rather than machine out the disk rotors, this is what you should do: SLAP them really really hard and scream at them "YOU'RE A F*CKING DICKHEAD!"
Mine broke while just cruising a car park. If this had happened at speed, I'd be very lucky to be here.
Ben's getting me the 72 stub axles and I'll be changing it over soon. so it'll be holden rotors, falcon bearings, 72 stub axles. No machining of either rotors or axle. I'll be keeping you all informed.
I reckon anyone who doesn't know if their stub axles have been machined to seriously check them out, it'll save lives. I'm still counting my lucky stars.
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i know how u feel i did mine a couple months back did it leaving my mates house and i was only cruising at about 20 k and my hole wheel fell off all i saw was my wheel rolling down the road and the van was leaning to one side was scary shit and i was lucky it didnt happen on the hwy as i would have had to get on the hwy to get to home bloody scary shit i know
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quote=holden rotors, falcon bearings, 72 stub axles
ive said that for years but no one would listen,
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what is it exactly that u need to get machined i believe if u machine anything your weekening it
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Hey Rothu
When you get your disk brake set up finalised can you list the bearing numbers so I can check against mine
Cheers
Joe
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he jimm you need to check out he new conversion you have on your van now to make sure it hasnt been done the same wa and to avoid this happening agaiun in the future..
ben
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they havent fixed my van to what u say drive everyday moreless they told me when i picked it up to drive back home i wouldnt recomend driving it all the time till u get ya other one they just took the stub axles off the van that i brought for $500 the one i striped they used those stub axles but when i get this other van i brought with the v8 in it i will be getting them to rebush everything and look at doing something about the stub axles, my mate was telling me that he can get stub axles for it apparently they use it on hot rods it will lower the front about an inch but like he said its hardly notticable his doing his home work and more of it atm
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this is one of the things i grot from one of the guys on here
INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE FITTING OF
HQ AND LATER MODEL DISCS TO BEDFORD STUBS.
Kit Contains:
2 off LH & RH Caliper Mounting Brackets DB BR 12 - CRS0048
2 off Grease cap adaptors DB Cap 01 - CRS0072
2 off Spacer Washers DB Wash 01 - CRS0069
4 off 1-3/4" x 7/16" UNF bolts (when using PBR caliper– cast iron type.)
4 off 2" x 7/16" UNF bolts (when using Girlock caliper– cast iron type.)
4 off 7/16th Spring Washers
8 off ½” UNC Nuts
8 off ½” Spring Washers
4 off ½” UNC x 3½” bolts
4 off ½” UNC x 1¾” bolts
NOTE: There will always be four bolts left over after installation as we cater for
both types of calipers.
This kit will fit both long and short wheel based Bedford.
As no grease seals or wheel bearings are available to allow the discs to fit the Bedford
stubs without machining the stub axle down (a definite NO) the disc hub must be
machined the same as the supplied drawing to allow original Bedford bearings and
seals to be fitted. As Bedford have two different sized stub axles with changes being
made in June 1973, be sure to machine your hubs to the correct dimensions.
Castlemaine Rod shop can restud your Holden discs to Ford patterns using a special
stud, so there is no evidence of the original hole.
C.R.S. will machine your discs on an hourly rate but be sure to knock out the old
bearings and clean them thoroughly.
It is always a good idea to take your old Bedford hub to the machine shop with you so
your machinist can relate to sizes.
ACN 109 501 957
P.O. BOX 349
CASTLEMAINE, 3450
VICTORIA, AUSTRALIA
Located on Pyrenees Highway Chewton
PHONE: [03] 5472 2853
FAX: [03] 5472 2141
EMAIL: rod@rodshop.com.au
WEBSITE: www.rodshop.com.au (http://www.rodshop.com.au)
Step 1: Wash hubs, fit cones, repack wheel bearings with disc brake grease, fit
seals.
Step 2: Bolt on caliper mounting bracket so caliper faces rearwards and with
the "T" stamp indicating top.
Step 3: Fit discs using supplied washer with taper towards bearing. Also use
H.Q. Holden Tab washer before fitting the original Bedford nut and split
pin washer. Press in machined ring against outer bearing cone to allow
dust cap to be fitted.
Step 4: Fit caliper to rotor and bolt on bracket. If caliper bolt holes don't line up,
grind mounting on caliper to allow clearance. Only a small amount is
required on some calipers.
Any master cylinder can be used, we suggest XB Ford type adapted to your original
booster as they are very short. An adjustable Holden proportioning valve may be
required to be used in the rear system.
If your vehicle is already fitted with a dual circuit master cylinder the residual line
pressure valve can be removed and smaller wheel cylinders fitted to the rear,
approximately 9/16" and all should be well.
Note: On the rear outer ends of the bottom wishbones, remove the steel protrusion as
under some conditions this could hit caliper.
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my mechanic was smart enough to know not to touch my stubs, everything went together without major work when we done mine last year. Mine look factory 4 wheel disc brakes now.
George.
I think castlemaine have stopped selling the disc brake conversion kits now. you may get some left over stock, but thats it.
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hoppers stoppers are still doing kits, and from what i remember they're much easier for the average person to fit than the CRS kit
George, what calipers are you running at the back, and what sort of diff are they mounted to?
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The only problem is that you have to run 15" minimum rims, the CRS ones allowed me to use my 14's
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Hey Camden,
Sorry to hear about the dillemma mate :-\
Heading down to Ben's tomorrow, so I will bring back your stub axles for ya to Melbs..
I'll call you if it's not too late when i get back tomorrow or on Wednesday. Or....depending in which way I come back and what times are, i might be able to drop 'em off..
Speak soon
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gee thats a bummer mezzmo..
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does crs still do the conversion cos my van has 14" rims on it
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hey jim, when i did mine we got everything bar the calliper bracket from CRS, my mechanic has an account with them, so knew what to get and who to talk to. We got the bracket from castlemaine because CRS did'nt have any in stock at the time. As for my rear brakes, well they almost just bolted on. We got a RHS brake assemly from the wreckers just to see if it would fit, with the exception of modifying a couple of holes, in the backing plate and a shim for the bearings, the brakes from an EA Falcon bolted straight up to my diff. As for what diff i have, when we find out i will let you know, for some reason anything that could ID it has been removed, no numbers nothing, blackmarket diff. lol
George.
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I received a reply from CRS they advise that they don't do these brake kits anymore
Cheers
Joe
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this is not looking good, in the space of 6 months 2 companies have dropped the kits.
George.
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We got the bracket from castlemaine because CRS did'nt have any in stock at the time.
I thought CRS was Castlemaine Rod Shop... ???
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sorry rogue, you are correct, i have confused myself with a company here in bris, they have simular initials. dumbo. i will find the bris place and post correct name . time for a break. van build is draining me. lol
George.
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so hoppers stoppers is the only known source atm?
is that hoppers as in hoppers crossing?
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If you can find someone with a CRS kit that hasn't been installed there is no reason why it can't be duplicated. Any engineer worth his salt should be able to do this and then if you have a template made at the same time they could just be replicated at will. Might be a good little money earner for someone.
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trust me rogue, with the amount of bedford owners here in oz, and you guys across the way, i am so tempted to start something up. If i had the cash i would look at doing a new version of vancraft. We have got benny here that does the fibreglass, i have a mate that wrecks bedfords close by, it would be a case of finding the right people with the passion and know how to do the custom work, trimmers, sheet metal, my mate the mechanic did'nt say know when i joked about it a couple of weeks ago. The amount off problems i have had to solve with my van in the last 6 months, and we have, i'm tempted.
George.
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Unfortunately it isn't quite that easy. It's OK if the people having the work done are willing to just settle for tried and true modifications, then is there is generally a known amount of time for the work and a set cost but as soon as someone wants something outside the box there are hours of work in R&D that becomes cost prohibitive because there is no way that anyone would spend that kind of money. That's why those sorts of things are generally done by the van owners themselves.
When I look at the days I have spent on getting the cab of my van to its current state not to mention the work it is going to take to finish it there is no way in hell I'd ever be able to pay someone to do that kind of work for me.
Making mounting brackets for brake calipers isn't such a drama as there is generally a limited number of ways to fit a caliper correctly but as soon as someone wants to make cosmetic changes to their van it's a completely different ballgame. You're only limited by your imagination. I guarantee you that most of the guys on this site have done those types of modifications themselves or had a very good friend do them for them because the cost of getting a professional outfit to do them would be phenomenally expensive.
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I agree rogue, if you look at most of the guys & girls here, it all comes down to cash, and bedford vans are a not for everyone. I know here in oz, those with the big money to spend, are going for hot rods and muscle cars, like the elenore, mustang or 68 chev camaro's. I like monaro's, and if i had the money i would build a HQ or HX monaro, but here in bris you can pay upwards of $20,000-00 for a plain no painted body. I wish monaro's were as plentiful as beddys, and price wise. I dont know about NZ but here in bris i know of only 3 real hot rod shops, that do everything from start to finish. We have one 10mins from me, OZ RODS, and they quoted me $10,000 to do my 4wheel disc brake and power steering conversion, if i had of gone with them, yes it would all have been done by now, but thats all that would of been done. I waited another 2 yrs, till i found my current mechanic, so far i have spent 2 grand ? and that is all the brake components and steering rack and labour over 6 months. Once i'm on the road again, and i add up the final bills, it wont be cheap, but i will have saved thousands by shopping around and getting the right guys for the job, and doing most of the work at home in my workshop.
George.
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Righto! The Bedford Detective has been researching a lot and the results are surprising! :o
Ben had given me some stub axles from a 1972 Bedford to replace the ones I had that now were obviously machined down to holden bearings. It still had the original drum brake set up on it with the original "Great Britian" Bedford bearings. It had been drilled to fit Holden studs.
I took that stub axle along with the bearing cups from the holden rotor disk to a couple of bearings shop.
The first one was the typical "what's it off?" mentality and wasted my time getting completely wrong bearings sets. I told them: "Just measure the damn axle, then measure the outer of the cups and find the ones that fit that combination!! FFS!!" Nup. this was too hard for them. They didn't measure anything, just kept going out the back and trying other bearings, none of which fitted. FAAAAAARK!!
So I went to another bearings place and explained veeeeeery slowly what I wanted. They measured it up, matched the sizes, got the sets and the axle will fit HOLDEN bearings!! NOT Ford Falcons, they were way too big for the inner axle.
Holden and Ford brake disk rotors are exactly the same, they both have the same bearings cups.
Inner Cup: LM67010 Outer Cup: LM12710
They do have different bearing races on the inners, but are practically the same for the outer ones.
Holden inner race: LM67048, outer race: LM12749
Now this would've saved me a lot of time and costs years ago if the stupid people at the brakes centre where I got the disk rotors had told me that. Since I have front Falcon wheels matched to the ford diff, they insisted that I had to get undrilled Holden rotors, then get a machinist to drill out a Ford stud pattern and put Ford studs in. This costed me an extra $240 on top of the costs of undrilled rotors ($160!), whereas, I could've just got Ford rotors and put Holden bearings into it for only $90! FAAAAAARK! Some people are retards, even so called professionals! >:(
I'm making up a photo diagram of the different stub axles from '72 and '76 showing measurements and bearings. I'll post the photos of the changeover soon.
I'm also taking the '76 stub axles in to get it measured with the rotor bearings cups to see if any bearing sets will just fit on without any need for machining. Early advice is that there are.
I still don't know where the idea for Falcon bearings came from, maybe a case of chinese whispers, because they definitely DON'T fit '72 axles!
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Hey Rothu you seem to be going through the same as i am at the moment only I want to fit falcon bolt patern to match the diff i am fitting So far I have found XC to XF front discs go streight on 76 Bedy stubs [same size inner bearing & seal ] but the outer bearing is too small for the 1inch outer bearing but there is enough meat in the outer spigot to machine out to fit Bedy outer bearing set Also I might be able to leave the outer cone stock ford & get a bearing with an 1inch hole to fit Bedy stub Anyway I will be takeing it all in to the bearing place to see what they can doo Ill keep you's posted Cheers Reid
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yes roth. . i too, when gettings bearings etc for beddy, hav learned to say " just measure n match please " wen i get " wots it off"? i reply "irrelevant to you" if pushed. . "wot part of measure n match are u havin trouble understanding sonny"? :) i know. .i know. .it is hard,at times like this to be pleasant mate ;)