BUGA Community
Technical => Miscellaneous Technical => Topic started by: scimitar79 on February 10, 2010, 09:30:58 AM
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hey yall
just contimplating some mods to beddy's ex ambo mill for poss more fuel efficency and better breathing, not thinkin anythin to rad as he's usually parked up far weeks at a time bein my home away frm hme when at wrk on the coast.
I'm thinking along the lines of extractors, decent carby and possibly a head job, the auto's all good and gets a birthday next week in christchurch.
How says yall?
oh and some wider wheels fa da arse, are the wheels a holden stud pattern?
just been reading post re Ben, best wishes from nz mate
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red, blue or black?
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hey, yea if ya scrape away the "black gold" ya get blue
Ritchie
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howdy doody
I put a crow cam stage 2 in my sons van with a 350 holley +pace maker extractors 2 1/2 " system and a good elecrtronic dizzy and i think this works on a 202 motor with standard auto .but I think with a a shaved head, ported + polished and new ground valves you would make a better motorbut this is a can worms .BUT best deal is to ring crow cams and tellm what you need and they will tell yah what you need because IM pushing a house brick at 110ks and your pushing a concreate block at 110ks so just ring or talk to the people that can really help you only because your concrete block is bigger than my house brick( becaurse every body knows a local guru )So just tellem want you want and they will and they will help
weasil
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G'day
Blue and Black 202s are known to throw No. 2 rod out the side of the block when pushed. I know from experience.
A set of ARP rod bolts is a good investment. Never thrown a rod with them on despite some very ratbaggery behaviour.
That is the only mod needed to the bottom end.
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Cheers guys
Think I'll run to extractors, 350 carby and electronic dizzy fa now and check it out frm there, thanks fa advice re rods, I had heard of those issues ta
and stud pattern matchs anythin special fa mags?
Cheers Ritch
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Unless it's been changed, It will be Bedford stud pattern.
TradeMe has usually got Cheviot mags to fit. Nothing else matches exactly.
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Cheers guys
;)
Ritch
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I'm running a 202 red, worked head (yellow terra) milded cam grind. roller rockers, non bendable pushrods from the states, extractors, 2.5" exhaust with special muffers, electronic dizzy, Air box with forced air and rejetted twin thort carb, all good on power, 3spd trimatic with overdrive.
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Sweet, what carby, Holley or Webber?
going into Rare spares tommoro an sus them out, A guy there used to have an ex ambo so shud be some good knowledge there lol
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Stayed with Holden, twin throt of Torana, Bas
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i had my red 173 high compression head (to go on my 202) in getting what it needed to run straight gas but it turns out it has been plug welded and is a no go'er... >:( (would have been nice as i got it for free)
i was searching around the wreckers and no one had a spare 173 high comp but one had a 186 high compression red head.
now.... it looked to me that the only difference between the 173 and the 186 high compression heads was that the 186 had adjustable valves.... the rest looked identical.
is this the case?????? and does anyone know if the push rod lengths are different if im using this head on a 202.
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i still recommend getting in contact with your local HQ racing club, for the price you'll get a much better head if you can find one 45cc or less. Most people wont go to the effort to dish their pistons to be able to use a head under 45cc, and a 186 head is well more than 45cc i'd say. I'd say the same for a 173 head, high compression head or not, they still have more metal on them than a race head does, and a race head is open chamber design.
Your pistons wont be above the deck most likely, so you wont have a massive compression, but depending on where your pistons are, you should be able to get 9:1-11:1 fairly easily.
With a 45cc head and pistons 17thou above the deck we have about 11.5:1. With a 36.5cc head we were able to achieve 14:1.
On gas 11:1 is fine, thats about where my van is with the 350, we run 98octane with 11.5:1 and have run 98octane on 12.5:1, but we have the carb and distributor specifically tuned for it, and the motor is always pulling and revving, a street car wouldn't be as happy on 98..
But even if you have to pay $200 for an ex race head, it will have had things done to help it that no street head would even consider having done, and these things will help you in ways you'll never know.
There are plenty of things you can do to make a race head even better, but we're not allowed to do them, so an ex race head on the street has alot of potential in the hands of a GOOD machinist.
I'm tempted to buy a hq to run around the streets, as they have aLOT of potential, i'd even buy a beddy and drop a 202 in it, and make an animal out of it.. ;D
a bit of food for thought.
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You'll see what I'm running from my tag at the bottom of my post. It has heaps of grunt and unbelievable torque. And it has never been more efficient!
The pushrods for all the red, blue, black engines are the same 230mm. You can get hardened pushrods for $70 off ebay.
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did you get the hardened valve seats rothu?
im told you will get 50 thousand or less out of the head if you don't with lpg..
230mm for all... good news indeed.
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my old man got 20 thou out of a 253 on gas with no hardened valves. and he drives like a grandpa!!!!
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yep ben... it just melts them.
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Luckily the reconditioned 173 head had new stainless valve seats. Otherwise I would've got them inserted. So no problems on gas! ;D Make sure you bleed the hydraulic lifters as well!
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I got this motor a couple of weeks ago and was wondering am i right to say that it has a 12 port head on? And if so, is this going to make the engine breathe a bit better for a slight performance upgrade?
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa315/johnabbott_2007/Motor2.jpg)
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa315/johnabbott_2007/Motor1.jpg)
;D ;D
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looks like a standard red head to me.
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yup. standard red head. extractors will make it "breath" better.
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have a look here too john'o..
http://holdenpaedia.oldholden.com/Six_Cylinder_Heads (http://holdenpaedia.oldholden.com/Six_Cylinder_Heads)
my high compression head is having oversized valves put in...
$400 for all work including hardened seats for lpg, new springs, valves ect ect.
i have not asked about porting prices though...
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Cheers for that guys.. ;D
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i still have not picked up my head but the fella rang up and told me it would be a sin to not do a short turn radius port.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Port_parts.GIF)
i didn't know what it was but he said it will complement the oversize valves he just put in and i would get better power out of it.
any insight? i take it it just lets it stuff itself with more air for better bang bang.
i have already told him to proceed ;D
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able, its well worth doing, we aren't allowed to do it.. the only thing we are allowed to machine is the port size but we have restrictions there too.
Basically it will create a smoother path for the incoming/exiting gasses which will result in less required energy which will create more energy.
Get him to take a before and after photo for you
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i think they were starting it yesterday afternoon so its to late for a before.
i have a 186 and a 202 head in the garage so i will finger their holes and compare it to the high comp when i get it home.
these new valves and the port should go well with those nice free extractors that come with me beddy.
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Let us know how it performs Able. That'd be interesting to know.
Might consider doing the same to my spare 202, once i get it up on the spare front end ;D
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yes able fingerin eh to feel the difference is fine. . just dont slap yor porker in there but ay ;)
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You'll see what I'm running from my tag at the bottom of my post. It has heaps of grunt and unbelievable torque. And it has never been more efficient!
The pushrods for all the red, blue, black engines are the same 230mm. You can get hardened pushrods for $70 off ebay.
slight problem there rothu....
i got my head home today and i asked as i was heading out the door if it was fine to use the old 202 rods.
he said no way! i said aren't they all the same size????
he said no the are not.... and that i will have to use 186 rods. (remembering that my original 173 high comp was cracked and i had to use a 186 high comp.)
i asked what the difference is and he said 3mm. i have the original 186 that come in my beddy and i sized the 186 and 202 pushrods up and there is a 3mm difference.
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thats correct able
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a few questions for those who know the answers ;D
in the book i use (Haynes) it sez to tighten rocker bolts (off load) to 30-39 nm.
but i need to know if that advice is still good for me because i have the 202 hydraulic lifters at the bottom but i have adjustable 186 standard rockers at the top and im using the shorter 186 push rods.....
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=22450&g2_serialNumber=2)
and do 186's take the same size spark plugs?
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186 have smaller spark plugs to 173 202,
you need to adjust the rockers like you would a 186. oh um not sure sorry. i think lifters are all the same.. better get another opnion thou.
ben
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seems to be a few methods here.
http://holdenpaedia.oldholden.com/Hydraulic_Lifters (http://holdenpaedia.oldholden.com/Hydraulic_Lifters)
and non adjustable here
http://holdenpaedia.oldholden.com/Rockers_and_Pushrods (http://holdenpaedia.oldholden.com/Rockers_and_Pushrods)
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186 have large plugs and 173 and 202 have smaller plugs
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186 have large plugs and 173 and 202 have smaller plugs
just found that out myself ;D