BUGA Community
Technical => Driveline => Diffs => Topic started by: SkippyThBushKangeroo on November 29, 2009, 01:25:13 PM
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howdy... bought me beddie a few weeks ago 1980 CF LWB 253 eng/auto... drove it home bout 160 kms... all cool bananas ,,did notice some grumbling from p/s rear w/b & some diff oil dribblin out.. upon return began investigations... to find someone had done..,wot in the essex tongue could only be,& rightly so,deemed as a.. "rite ol bodge & scarper job". on the diff axles..sigh.whacked her arse up in the air , noticed wheel moved in/out bout 3 odd mil, pulled axle out to find the retaing ring for the sealed bearing had been tackwelded on :o allowing the slop,, i assume this is not a "good thing" to find?? & so began th rite royal pain in the proverbial task to id diff through casting no,s it came up a ford 9 inch LSD, the bango casing is a 1968..,pinion casing is 1965,also noticed the leafs were mounted on top of diff..is this the norm ??? pulled d/s axle out it was press fitted as is the norm but wen pulled bearing off noticed bluing around the taper. also noticed axles were different lengths bout 3 mil.is this also the norm for LSD??? noticed on the forums the terms 28 spline & 31 spline being bandyed about fairly often, have counted 21 splines on end of these ones...have measured diff lenth as being 1560m. being diff illiterate & wondering if this diff is a pile of snot,have a few different sorts of diffs on hand,1 v8 from a wb panelvan and 1 from a v8 hx ute. are there any diffs that bolt straight in?
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one more bit of info this has 15 inch rims..jag i believe ..were they standard or did they run 14s as the norm?? have shots of it all, but not sure how to post them, if required. thanks for your time if anyone can give me their knowledge on these subjects cheers skippy ;D
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bolt straight into. to a bedford?? you got to be kidding a quote from rouge that me and my old man always say is "only thing that goes straight into a bedford is a load of firewood in the back"
i did a diff conversion last week, welded up diff mounting points, shockers mounts, then fitted disc brakes to it also. machined down the axels to fit wb disc brakes, then welded up some caliper mounts onto the housing. all sweet, drove to eden over the weekend. 500km away all good:)
if they are standard lwb springs and standard shackle setup and the diff is underneath you will probably find that the springs are quite sagged and youll have trouble passing a roadworthy because of the lack of spring travel, just have a look at the rear shackles and see what angle they are sitting at. should be at least 15% forward from straight up and down:)
depends how wide you want to go with wheels and all that, if you want to run flares or just standard guards. best off to just do measurements, ive found holden diffs to be too narrow, i have a chev 12 bolt, its fairly wide, i still have to run 10" rims on the back to fill out the flares on the rear its wider than the 9 inch i took out anyway.
bedford swb axels run 21 and 25 spline, so maybe you have bedford axels?? i think you may have a modifyed diff also knownn as a hwy diff. where they cut graft 2 diffs together, the axel and axel housings from the bedford diff into the other kind of centre. is the best way to keep that width for there is no other diff out there as wide as the bedford diff. arnt we lucky!!!!
cheers
ben
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hey bro did a little bit of homework for you this morning, this is what i came up with. all thiese measurements are for single wheeled diffs.
width between far edges of springs on
lwb... 1050mm
swb.. 1300mm
diffs i got laying around
beddy standard 1760mm
chev 12bolt..... 1650mm
holden salsbury. 1600mm (not very accurate but should be close)
ford 9inch........ 1560mm
jag................. 1550mm
holden vs........ 1550mm
holden banjo.... 1500mm
obviously not all of each kind of diff is of this width but it gives you a good indication of what your up against.
can anyone confirm the width of the salsbury? mine is under a ute that is soaking wet cause of all the rain.
i have ran 10" really deep dish rims on the 9 inch and its passable as not too narrow but very borderline with flares which sit roughly 2 inchs past the standard guard.
i now run the 10's on the chev 12 bolt and im happy as:) the tyres stick out with the buldge in the tyre like 5mm. looks wiked!
i dont think borg wagner diffs would even be an option similar to the banjo but anyone got any more widths of diffs that could help people when chosing a diff for their van? or truck johnno!!!!! crazy man:))))))P
cheers
ben
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cheers ben...measured th springs 1300 so she be a swb...i stand corrected ;D the axles have two sets of wheelnut holes, the inner pattern had bolts and is smaller in diameter than the outer pattern which are empty,maybe be beddie dual axles??? are they supposed to be the same length or does LSD differ??would a hwy diff be geared lowish?? this felt highish.. wen i drove up found the revs to be a tad excessive for the speed i was doin, goin by ear,felt as if would do the same speed with a few ton of that firewood wots the only thing that fits in the back of the beddie ;). also had high profs on 235/75/15... not sure wot 205/65/15,s would go like as hav a set, but would they make the diff work harder??? looked at the springs they are about 15-20 degrees from straight up/down, tho if as in forward you meant the angle pointing towards the rear of the van..then yes they look ok the springs look to be straight does the same apply to the springs on a SWB?? as you had mentioned the LWB in that slice of info.. yes mate arent we lucky ,so many options,shame bout the holden diffs as had a selection sigh... thanks again for your time in this ben tis appreciated, was hoping to run down to melb in her next week as have a job to do down there every year at newman uni at end of swanston st, but looks like i,ll be drivin th n n navara, on the bright but.. the heater prob works better in the narvy... cheers
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yeh ok you have a swb and the diffs standard sit underneath. i like em like that. its easier to pull them out and in.
take some photos and put them up on this site. then everyone will be able to tell you ecatly what you have:) you may still have an original diff if its screaming at 100, they just redrilled the axels for holden stud or something like that.
cheers
ben
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I have a 76 SWB camper, I put a complete diff out of a hj ute 3.55 ratio in, very tight fit about 10mm clearance on eachside between inner side of tyre and springs.
Had to weld original shock absorber mounts,and spring beds onto replacement diff and some grinding of handbrake cable end but all very basic work
Also had to fit deep dish mags with standard internal offset 3 1/4 inch from memory.
to get the track right the best part all standard holden mechanicals
Cheers
Joe
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ok thanks guys.. no worries ben have piccies ready to put up......just not sure how to stick em in ze galler, but will endevour to suss???? ;D thanks joe ..i take it then a WB diff would be same size??? and..would fit but will be tight??? that is good news.if you put any pics up joe can u include one of the arseend for me to check out ifd pos..?? cheers ;)earlier, tried to find the bearings that came out they are stamped SKF. R H. 415691B., but wen i google them or put th no into the SKF bearing site it comes up as no info????? ,is this god tryin me?? or just another of the joys of beddie parts ID protocols??? seems like th bearing manufactures are saying it doesnt exist as a part ..but im holding it my hand lookin at it.& .no have not been chewin too many gumleaves an imagining the whole thing..anyone enlighten me on the bearings if pos .. thanks again for your time in this ...... tim
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i put up on here info of the orig bedford bearings and some bearings i were looking at using instead as a replacement because of the expensivness of orig ones, but have sort of gone away from using bedford orig bearings anyway,
if that bearing is orig you can still get them but skf dont make them any more, but another mob do, usually about $250 each thou. expensive.
but first check out
http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=2&topic=1169.0 (http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=2&topic=1169.0)
may be the go if its all good:)
dont forget the search function!!! its brilliant usually!
cheers
ben
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ben yor a gem ;D hav managed to put piccies up in gallery for viewinl.. cheers tim
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if that bearing is orig you can still get them but skf dont make them any more, but another mob do, usually about $250 each thou. expensive.
but first check out
http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=2&topic=1169.0 (http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=2&topic=1169.0)
I just used my last spare wheel bearing and picked up another on ebay uk for $30 delivered ($10 for the bearing).
They're out there all the time, but if you don't want to gamble on it actually being the right bearing if/when it turns up then jeff is the go.
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hey skippy you got a 9 inch modifyed for bedford.. axels which have standard bedford wheel bearings on them. expensive!!!!! make sure the axel is alright where the bearing goes on the one that the bearing busted if the bearing has been spinning around on the axel it will have worn down the axel and you need to throw it away.
cheers
ben
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hey skippy that looks like a chev in the baby. what ya got?
ben
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yes woz..am hopin it isnt too worn.. if not woz hopin to maybe use a punch around that area so,s it will grip..maybe locktight as well will have to see if too much meat gone wen get vern on it tomoz.. let u know.. its a holden 253 ben..whoever did it dudnt do too bad a job ..just had to adjust the radiator to fit betterer an move trans cooler up to front...wiring is a bit of a horror lots of wires goin nowhere,..is dedicated to gas too.. has 3 tanks in it should be able to get to melbs wivout fillin
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does anyone have the bearing number for the standard bedford wheel bearing thanks
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hey Skip, don't stres cous, I run two of these diffs ,( I think they're the best for beddies) check my gallery it has all the measure ments you'll need , part # 's too, but (just skimming over the posts) how do you know there beddie axles, try bronco bearing numbers , but mainly take the bearing and collar into a bearing supplier CBC for eg, they'll get the vernia's out and should be able to match them,mine were $130 inc collars $50 to press off/on I'll confirm my #'s tomorrow
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thanks dano onya.. spent hours searchin bearing sites last night, till i could bear it no more :D even cut into me BF2 time online which is sacreligious.... skip
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re the axles posted some pics in gallery...ben checked em out seemed to think that wot they were .. also coincides with spline numbers as swb run 21 or 27 these are 21 cheers dears
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soz.. just reread bens comment.. his actual comment woz 9 inch diff modifyed to bedford axles so guess theyre fords as casings are.... modifyed with the different holden stud pattern?? did you get the feeling they may be bronco axles?? would like to know its whole ID before buying...puttin a clutch in me mitsi 4WD one time .. it woz bout 60 km from shop to mitsi they gave me the wrong clutch ass 3 times. woz hoppin mad (excuse the pun ;D) by end of it.is there a minimum dia for the taper at the bearing end of the axles ??
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nah just lok to see if were the bearing sits has created a lip. if it has its shot unfortunatly, i have spare axels if you need one. of course youll need to get it redrilled thou.
ben
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well axle tapers looked like they had not worn or created a lip where bearing sits will get away wiv the ol punch a few grab spots on it ;D saw in thread someone mentioned putting toyota retaining rings on as they held firmer..anymore info on that as in which model tojo retaining ring to use . and where to purloin em from... wivout buying whole tojo bearing ass.....or can one spread the retainers of the new bearing first before fitting to ensure max grip...thanks for any input to this request..cheers skip
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Hey Skip, I found some old part #'s but just confirm that they're 9" or Borg Warner(b4 u buy ), as there's no date on the invoice..........
" to suit FORD, rear wheel....KIT F205A" 1966-72, XR XT ZA ZB - 8CYL
XW XY ZC ZD -351 FALCON,FAIRLANE
1972-79 (DRUM BRAKE) XA XB ZF ZG 5.8 LTR
CONTAINS BEARING,RING& SEAL FOR ONE WHEEL.
good luck Dan
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googled the kit no..it only comes up in some yank website.. no chance it has the manufactures name withn it?? verniered the bearing comes in at inn dia 35mm out dia 80mm width 37mm... is sealed thamks
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well.... copulate my antiquated footwear!!! after phonin around a few places re bearings .. woz in pirie yesterday stockin up on supplies an stuffin me pouch wiv the best indian takeaway this side of the flinders ;) i thought(unusual).. would pop into autopro ( the automotive version of cheap as chips :D) an see if they could match the ones i had.. i woz pesimistic to say the least,.but to my suprise they said they had them in stock in their adelaide store an could have em in next week . i remembered wot dano had said & asked them to make sure they were for a 9 inch or borg warner then, tentively popped the question...how much??... $61 each they replied. order em in i ;D. will let u know if they in fact are the ones or wether they have been pullin my puddin about it . many thanks again for all yor inputs into this thread guys u all are truly invaluable to the wonderful world of beddying.
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nice one Skip..... ;D
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just found this note..... sorry Skip,hope you havent paid for yours... Again from CBC I'm sure:
rear wheel bearings for 9" galaxie F-208A-KK
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Diff widths
By hq_ss. 10/01/09@09:46 Shed LetsCruise 6110
These are a few I have but I am not 100% sure on these so I am open to corrections and the ? marks are on ones that I have conflicting numbers on.
Flange to flange measurements
EK 55.90" 1420 mm
HR 57.08" 1450 mm
HK 60.47" 1536 mm ?
HT/G 61.02" 1550 mm ?
LJ 53.93" 1370 mm
LH 56.69" 1440 mm
VN 1550 mm or 1560 mm ??
XR-XY Falcon 59.05" 1500 mm
XA-EL 61.02" 1550 mm
EB 61.22" 1555 mm
Cheers Paul.
pulled off old holden site..
shane can we move this post into the diff section please?
cheers
ben
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well spotted ben ;) shouldnt be too diff.. ::) icult to do shane ?? cheers