BUGA Community
Technical => Driveline => Disk Brakes => Topic started by: Shazbot on September 04, 2009, 07:11:22 PM
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Have heard of a lot of different set ups. Some seem to be very time consuming and fiddley. We are running HQ discs with Ford wheel bearings. Original stub axles are about 1" machined down to Ford trailer wheel bearing size 7/8. With usual calliper adapter plate and front bearing spacer washer. Very simple set up and no mucking around getting discs machined. Walk straight into a shop, buy HQ discs and Ford bearings anywhere, no mucking around. This has been a very reliable set up and has been on my van for 25 years with no broken stub axles or any other problems.
I think alot of people get into trouble and break stub axles because they machine them to HQ bearing size, which is alot smaller. Ford bearings fit straight into HQ discs, just have to change the bearing race along with it, which makes overhauling the brakes a straight forward job. If you have car on the road as a daily driver or are travelling around, you can't afford to be waiting around for discs to be machined.
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you have machined the later model stub down to the size of the early model stub. (or lwb stub) which requires no machining for ford bearings to fit.
this right?
cheers
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you have machined the later model stub down to the size of the early model stub. (or lwb stub) which requires no machining for ford bearings to fit.
this right?
cheers
no Ben....We have a SWB with the original stub axels, which are standard about 1", machined down to 7/8 Ford wheel bearing size. Only a marginal amount is needed to be machined to fit the ford bearings and it does not compromise the strength. The original owner did this 25 years ago. We have spoken to him and know this. My husband has changed all the wheel bearings and discs and had no problems at all.
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im running hq front discs from those stubs i got off you ben, they were machined down to fit ford bearings, and like shazbot said they fit hq discs no machining needed. also got commodore discs on rear with hq pattern, van pulls up on a dime its great
alex
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im running hq front discs from those stubs i got off you ben, they were machined down to fit ford bearings, and like shazbot said they fit hq discs no machining needed. also got commodore discs on rear with hq pattern, van pulls up on a dime its great
alex
Alex,
Hubby is interested in more information on the rear setup you have and what sort of diff and master cylinder is in use. Pic's would be great!!!
Shaz
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Hang on.
So you have no time to get to get disk rotors machined but you have time to get the stub axles machined? ???
You have to to take the entire stub axle assembly off to get it machined. And regardless of your assertion it doesn't weaken it, it removes the hardened steel (that is on the exterior of a a stub axle) even if it's 1/8 an inch.
Nice idea, though if the stub axle is to be re-hardened, good: it's a pretty substantial piece of your liability to be on the road.
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I gotta say Rothu is right on the money about the stubs under NO circumstances should they be machined .If a stub is even damaged by a spun bearing IE; scoring or blueing sop recommend replacement beside the safety factor at least think of the liability suits you would be open to if one failed and killed/injured someone . ok enough of my happy thoughts ;D ;) Cheers Neil
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Don't get your knickers in a knot there guys!!!! Gosh, if you read my original post correctly you would have seen that I mentioned that the original owner did these modifications 25 years ago!!! My van has been all around Australia at least twice, including Tasmania. After 25 years, this modification has lasted with no breakages and no wheel alignment issues. We have spoken to the guy. He was a truckie who got all the modifications done by professional people. Yes, they were re-hardened. I didn't think I had to mention this as it is basic first year stuff and any one with mechanical knowledge knows this. Yes, it takes a bit of time in the beginning, (but lets face it, it is only a couple of ball joints and a steering end ) This would probably take no more time than doing the discs! It is actually harder to set up a disc in the machine than it is to set up a stub axle. So. you get your stub axle done and then you don't have to worry about getting anything machined ever again. Cool, I think. You can travel any where in this beautiful country and never get anything machined again. Just replace as necessary. Even a tradesman in a large dealership cannot get discs machined in the time it takes to buy replacements. And this is to face them, not to get the inner hubs machined. My husband ran a major dealership workshop for 10 years and know this.
There are two main reasons we modify to disc breaks. For better breaking and less sprung weight. ( also for better wheel choice and handling ;D) Most suspension systems are over engineered. That being said, if we remove the components,,,heavy drums. wheel bearings, shoes, backing plate etc. There is a half to a third reduction in sprung weight and therefore the stub axles are more than adequate to handle a reduction of an 1/8 inch (face hardened, 20 min job) if correctly done.
These trades have an overlap in knowledge. An engineer knows about mechanics and vice versa. This is so that these sorts of jobs are done correctly. (this is first year stuff between trades ) A mechanic will know that something has to be re hardened if it is machined and he would expect the engineer to tell him so and the engineer should tell anyone doing this sort of job.
and off on another tangent......if it is bad to get stub axles machined, is it also bad to get disc hubs (which are caststeel and prone to cracking) machined,? They are all made for a specific purpose and any modification must surely be a liability issue.
Half a dozen of one and half a dozen of the other. Which do you choose??? I want my parts when I am sitting in Laverton at the dusty service station and not have to wait for them to be sent to Kalgoorlie, machined and sent back again and wait around for how many weeks? Only to find it was stuffed up and they have to do it all again! This happens, believe me >:(
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i think you will find machining of anything is not nessesary..
dont use the later swb stubs.. use the early 1/8th of an inch smaller ones, or lwb ones, then use ford bearings and hq disc.
ok ill do it this week to confirm, i have all of the above bar the bearings here.
ben
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I am not getting my knickers in a knot i am just expressing my concerns about a well documented problem . i have over 30 years in the trade ,the last 18 in vehicle modifications, and i know that theres not a governing body in this country that will accept that modification. the problem is in the re-hardening process if the part is not re-heated to the same temp as the manufacturer did you can get a lamination effect in the axle .you may be lucky in that after 25 years they havent failed or on the other hand it could be just around the corner!! I just dont see the logic of risking yours and others lives for the convenience of not having to machine your rotors which by the way are not hardened and provided there is enough material there for stength . Cheers Neil
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I have the larger stub axles and the hq rotors machined to suit, the bearing no.s were on the old site
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I have the larger stub axles and the hq rotors machined to suit, the bearing no.s were on the old site
Nope I saved them!!! 8)
Go here... http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=2&topic=220.0 (http://www.buga.com.au/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=2&topic=220.0)
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excellent mate
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Getting knickers in a knot? Hardly!
The site is for exchange of info relating to all things Bedford.
One of the great things about it is that if someone posts up something that can be considered dangerous, stupid or illegal in terms of alterations or modifications, then we have a right, even a duty to point it out so that other readers will not put themselves and others in jeopardy. In the shed or on the road.
Just a point: If you seriously don't check all your brakes are in good condition BEFORE you travel long distances then that's pretty neglectful. It also seems that since you're saying you go through disk rotors all the time rather than the pads, then maybe your brake set-up has something very wrong with it!
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Getting knickers in a knot? Hardly!
The site is for exchange of info relating to all things Bedford.
One of the great things about it is that if someone posts up something that can be considered dangerous, stupid or illegal in terms of alterations or modifications, then we have a right, even a duty to point it out so that other readers will not put themselves and others in jeopardy. In the shed or on the road.
Just a point: If you seriously don't check all your brakes are in good condition BEFORE you travel long distances then that's pretty neglectful. It also seems that since you're saying you go through disk rotors all the time rather than the pads, then maybe your brake set-up has something very wrong with it!
I don't seem to remember saying that I went through disks all the time at all...Maybe you had better read the post again and make sure you fully understand it before you make a personal attack on me..and I am NOT stupid....things happen, usually when you are going to be stuck in the middle of no where and have to wait weeks for parts... AND I will also repeat the we did NOT do this modification, we bought the van this way and just wanted to let others know so they had further information. There are plenty of things that people have posted on this site that I consider to be stupid and dangerous, but I didn't tell them this!! (and neither did anyone else for that matter)
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hey shazbot intrested in a social day ? guys are starting to pm me for a date thinking about having another perth bugga day maybe when the weather warms up a bit and as we have a few southern guys might be good to head down your way?
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hey shazbot intrested in a social day ? guys are starting to pm me for a date thinking about having another perth bugga day maybe when the weather warms up a bit and as we have a few southern guys might be good to head down your way?
You just want to see how many vans you can actually park on Shazbot's front lawn. :P
I recommend that Shazbot counts her vans again after you guys have left just in case one mysteriously walks... ;D ;D
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;D I know I can fit that trailer under my shirt!! ;) ;D
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Oh no not another one in the drive Craig!! :-[ :-\
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I don't seem to remember saying that I went through disks all the time at all...Maybe you had better read the post again and make sure you fully understand it before you make a personal attack on me..and I am NOT stupid....things happen, usually when you are going to be stuck in the middle of no where and have to wait weeks for parts... AND I will also repeat the we did NOT do this modification, we bought the van this way and just wanted to let others know so they had further information. There are plenty of things that people have posted on this site that I consider to be stupid and dangerous, but I didn't tell them this!! (and neither did anyone else for that matter)
You seemed to take it pretty personally! I was speaking in very general terms.
I read your post and it still seems to say you'd go through disk rotors than pads.
The fact is that modification is illegal and it's imperative to let others know so they won't do the same thing and face serious potential accidents and liability suits. There should be no problem for anyone with people speaking up for the benefit of others safety.
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Oh no not another one in the drive Craig!! :-[ :-\
who me? na ......... maybe ....later.... ;)
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hey shazbot intrested in a social day ? guys are starting to pm me for a date thinking about having another perth bugga day maybe when the weather warms up a bit and as we have a few southern guys might be good to head down your way?
You just want to see how many vans you can actually park on Shazbot's front lawn. :P
I recommend that Shazbot counts her vans again after you guys have left just in case one mysteriously walks... ;D ;D
I am told that there is room for many more,,,as long as they are parked the right way! hehehe ;D
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Howdy ,I have a van and my son has one
disc brakes got to luvem,I have done CRS kit and HQ discs but settled for hopper stoppers .we talked to peter at hopper stoppers and he made the first bedford kit in OZ.Machined the hubs to fit bedford stubs through to all hardware ,lines,with 300mm rotors and 4 pot calipers they are sic .plug and play is the way to go
weasil ;)
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http://www.hoppers.com.au/index.html (http://www.hoppers.com.au/index.html)
theres been alot of interest in buga about doing brake upgrades on our beddies, this site, hoppers will tell you everthing you need to no about brakes and how they work, so read up beddie brothers, very interesting reading, they give you a really good undrstanding how it all works ;D
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now this has to be a dangerous one eh?
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh20/jukeboxesrus/DSCF2062.jpg)
hehe
ben
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hey shazbot is this one of the dangerous things your were talking about?
BEN I SHOULD SMACK YOUR BUM!!
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i wouldnt like havin disks on my van with turned down stubs.
even if their supposed to be rehardened.
just my opinion though.
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sorry everyone that was bad taste. and im gunna make up some proper stands now cause my dodgey stands are dangerous. and i would never get underneath them thou.
sorry again
from silly ben
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http://www.hoppers.com.au/index.html (http://www.hoppers.com.au/index.html)
theres been alot of interest in buga about doing brake upgrades on our beddies, this site, hoppers will tell you everthing you need to no about brakes and how they work, so read up beddie brothers, very interesting reading, they give you a really good undrstanding how it all works ;D
(email i got back from hunterbynature,s brake mod link. after asking if the stub can be machined.)
Marty
Yes we do a Bedford brake upgrade, it needs minimum 15 inch wheels in Holden or Ford pattern. Cannot do original Bedford pattern as the PCD is too big.
Kits are $1350 with smooth rotors, $1450 slotted rotors, $1500 drilled and slotted. This uses original Bedford wheel bearings etc and bolts to standard unmodified stub axle.
Kit includes conversion hubs, bearings seals grease caps, DBA rotors off BA ford drilled from blanks for Holden pattern, PBR twin piston calipers off AU3 Ford, all mounting brackets spacers bolts and hoses.
You also need a 1 inch tandem master and adapter plate which we have at $320. You will then need to make new lines from the chassis to the master cylinder as the fittings are different.
We have seen the older method of machining the stub axle down to take Holden or Ford wheel bearings but I have been told of stub axles breaking and the DOTARS rules specifically say reducing stub axle diameter is forbidden so we won’t do it.
Regards
Peter Koning
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Thanks Marty, that should make it crystal clear!
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so make up your own minds on this 1.
but remember if your stub axle snaps and sends your wheel off through a family cars windscreen hurting or killing someone and the crash sceen investigation finds the reason being a machined stubaxle,
id be devistated if my vehicle caused injury or death
plus u might be kissing your insurance policy good bye and selling everything you own to pay for it. if its not stated on the engineers certificate that the stubs been machined and passed.
not trying to burst anyones bubbles, just trying to prevent a big disaster .
marty
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here is what i did today.
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh20/jukeboxesrus/DSCF2079.jpg)
cheers
ben
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hey ben did you say there are factory bedford stubs that suit ford bearings? because maybe thats what i got off you.
hey just making you all aware even if yourve done the hq front disc conversion properly, castlemaine rod shop kit or just used the same method or whatever, if you havnt had them engineered the are not legal, so if something breaks and causes an accident as a result of your back yard disc conversion, your f***ed. how many of us out there actually got their disc conversion engineered?
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here is what i did today.
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh20/jukeboxesrus/DSCF2079.jpg)
cheers
ben
i dunno ben, looks sus 2 me.
where u gunna mount the disk and callopers?
:D
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hey ben did you say there are factory bedford stubs that suit ford bearings? because maybe thats what i got off you.
yep.
no comment on the second one lol..
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Anyone know of a good engineer in the Northern suburb of Melbourne??
Looking at putting V8 in my beddy. ;D
The front already has disks, but would like engineer to look over it.
Jan
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askar is in hallam
i was going to get green van engineered with him but ive changed plans.
the reason i wanted to go with him cause he seemed like little hastle, he answers his phone!!! never had to call me back but im sure he would unlike the rest of them! i rang about 5 or 6 before he answered the phone. and the rest never called me back!
the blokes out in the country are a pain in the butt so i didnt even bother with them even thou they are closer.
any engine mount mods dont need to be done by a certifyed welder because there is not lots and lots of strain as long as its braced well..
for nothing to do he quoted me $600, another $50 for disc brakes engineered also. if you need to bring it back anoher $200
blokes in country the bill will end up $1500 - $2000!!
ph. 0403367396
i felt this bloke was good to talk to on the phone, sounded like he was happy to have the work (unlike some) so i was gunna give him a go,
if you want to go someone closer go on the vic roads website, there is a list of engineers there
cheers
ben
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i was told the other day that bedford stubs arent hardened standard so machining is ok without the rehardening process..
anyone confirm this or have any info opposing it?
cheers
ben
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Hi Guys, been reading the views here, and I have an opinion. HINDSIGHT, what a great thing, I wish I had it on th 17th september 2001, if I did I would not have gone to work that sunny morning, or if i did, I would not have grabbed the job off the computer in my courier van, and I would of still had both legs and both eyes, I would of known that some low life junky high on drugs and alcohol was going to steal a high powered car and kill one lady and cripple me, and demolish 5 cars. I didnt know thats why i went to work that day and never thought twice about what could happen. But i do know that if I modify my beddy without all the checks by the relevant engineers, than i up the anti. Im no different to you guys out there, i dont have money to waste on crap, but what price do you put on a life or a limb ? I have now lost both legs and one eye because of someone making a wrong decision.
I hope we see all our beddy mates back here after the xmas carnage. It took less time then it takes for an airbag to go off, and no amount of money can give me back my old life.
Regards
George.....
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My News Years Eve party died early, so drunk and dreaming, I decided I should put discs onto my beddy. I stumbled across the BUGA site and you fellas answered most of my questions (including some I did not know I had) straight up.
Thanks guys. Happy New Year.
Cam.
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See Guys....Even when your drunk and dreamin, you can still be drawn to the centre of the Beddie unirverse by this site . ;D ;D Ya gotta luv it !!! ;)
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Sounds like a Dr Who episode.... ;)
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does that mean you put disc brakes on your beddy will drunk and disordely? i find it hard enough when im sober:)