BUGA Community
Classifieds => Wanted => Topic started by: Rothu on August 21, 2009, 05:52:00 PM
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Anybody have a good 186 head with hardened valve seats?
I've found the problem with mine was a leaking head gasket and a recessed exhaust valve on No. 1 cylinder. The head is off and I'm shopping around for prices on replacing just one valve.
BUT, if there is a good head out there, cheap, then I'll just replace the head itself.
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Since you have the head off tip the head on its side with the manifold inlet and exhaust ports facing up' then pour 50mm approx of kerosene into each valve port, if any valve is damaged or not seated properly the kero will leak out almost immediately. The kero will not have any adverse effect when the head is replaced on the motor. Check out the price of new valves I bought a couple about 18 mths ago from a engine recondictioner and they cost about $20 each
Cheers
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Thanks joe,
The valve is so recessed that it's likely the seat has completely gone!
On top it sits about 4mm higher than the others, causing the pushrods and rocker to keep it open all the time.
so seat replacement is necessary and I don't have that equipment to do it.
Hence asking for a head if it's too expensive for just one valve seat..
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Either a 186 or 202 recoed for gas head.
Need it urgently!
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im in geelong and my beddy come with a 186 and its sitting in the back yard....
i don't know what condition its in but it was running when i pulled it out. my bedford had spent a few years sitting in the open before i bought her.
do you want me to take the head off and take a pic of the underneath to see if its any good?
im not experienced enough to be able to tell you.
ps. it was running on straight petrol
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i have 2 i86's at epping. one was supposed to be a good motor one is supposed to be not a good one.
you can have it if you want.
i dont bother with hardened valves. i run straight gas until i blow a valve then pull a head off something else. red heads are expendble lol
actually put a 173 head on it. you sohuld get one of them for free also!! and youll get more compression and more power and the motor will take it being run on gas.
ben
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Ben,
I'll definitely grab the "good" engine! ok, a 173 head you reckon? Why would it "take it" being on straight gas? Who's got one?
Able,
thanks, but don't use your time to pull the head off.
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my old dad used to tell me that all the time, "dont use your time to pull the head off" never did know what he was referring to ? ;)
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my old dad used to tell me that all the time, "dont use your time to pull the head off" never did know what he was referring to ? ;)
Thhats why you wear glasses :D
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if you up the compression (by putting a smaller head on your engine) if your running petrol you can run into troubles with pinging, but if your running gas it can run at a higher compression.
i dont really know much about it just what people tell me.
a bloke told me he ran a 161 head on a 202 for 4 years on petrol and it went like stink.
im not sure id go that far.
pm me your number bro.
cheers
ben
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Ok! All done, new head! Much better.
I got a reco'ed "202" head from ebay for $150!
After Ben said to get a 173 head for greater compression I groaned and did some research.
The casting number is 2811929 H which according to various forums was either a 202 or 173.
The "H" stands for high comp. But people pointed out that the 202 adjusted the comp by the depth of the dish in the piston, so it couldn't be a "202 H" head.
So then I got here http://www.allhead.com.au/Identification/ID_Red%206.html (http://www.allhead.com.au/Identification/ID_Red%206.html) and clarified it WAS a 173 high comp head! And the old head was a 202... (2811930)
This holden head photo chart really helped too http://gallery.oldholden.com/HQ_SS/Tech/Engines/red+heads/6cyl+Casting+ids/ (http://gallery.oldholden.com/HQ_SS/Tech/Engines/red+heads/6cyl+Casting+ids/)
So thinking I'd have to lose a bit of guts in power, but totally forced to do change it anyway, it turns out it's even better than I could have thought!
I also got the proper rockers, pivot posts and bolts off some Commo at Centre road wreckers.
Note: check all the pivots posts. They are aluminium and right under where you pour oil in, grit can get in and sit there between the post and rocker and grind away at both. A full set $10.
Bloody stoked!
Thanks Ben for your other option!
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glad its worked out well for ya brother!!
cheers
ben
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Thats some great info, thanks Rothu!
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i seem to have this one....
http://gallery.oldholden.com/HQ_SS/Tech/Engines/red+heads/6cyl+Casting+ids/06++2811930++30+G+3+++30++7+73++++6cyl++++L.jpg.html (http://gallery.oldholden.com/HQ_SS/Tech/Engines/red+heads/6cyl+Casting+ids/06++2811930++30+G+3+++30++7+73++++6cyl++++L.jpg.html)
how long is that going to last running straight gas?
does the L mean low compression like some claim?
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i think they work on 50,000 if the head is in good nick.
i recon i did more than that thou with my first 173 head..
oh but i did drive about 10,000 only on 5 cylinders lol
ben
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so what exactly do i want to get long life out of a head running on straight gas?
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i asume you mean what exactly to i DO not WANT..
get your valve seats harrdened. probably cost about $400 or $500 i recon. only guessing thou.. id drive it thou until they stuff up then get it reconed. thats what all the head reconditioners suggest also. or get another one off ebay.
ben
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i might as well get it all running and buy another head and get the work done to that.
that's all it needs?
am i better of sticking to a 202 head if im just after a everyday driver and don't want to spend and muck around more then i have too? you would have to change push rod lengths and all that if you change heads to a non 202?
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Able
I dont think so, the heads, and motors for that mater are all much the same, just different bore/stroke - port configuration.
Warren
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so it would be better to pick up a 173 head for the extra compression especially if im running straight gas and spend the money on that?
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Possibly - or a yella terra one :D
Warren
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Yep go the yella terra head, I ran one on a 186 a few vans back and it made a difference performance wise ;)
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oh and while your at it throw on a good set of extractors, cheapest performance modification by far, I have a set for a VK injected motor, then again I got a VK motor and auto and everything else to go in exchange for a V8 trimatic if anyones interested (just thought I'd ask) ;)
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i got these with it...
headers a friend called them.... i thought they were extractors....
(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=6332&g2_serialNumber=2)
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same thing, same result albeit by a different names ;)
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just come back from a mates house.. he has a 173 all nice and clean with bell housing and m20 and a slimline starter..... said it was taking up to much room at his mums and she wants it gone like a year ago.... i said what does it owe ya...
. im thinking...
173 head to put the dollars into for straight gas and better compression.
nice clean bell housing. (the one that came with the beddy is caked with sh1t)
spare starter
spare m20
spare fly wheel...
he said $20 and you can take it....
needless to say im sucking a beer right now with a stupid grin. ;D
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Good on ya Able!
Being cruising the new set-up up through the Dandenongs and the compression is solid as.
Could drive up a wall in third gear. 8)
Took a friends advice and got colder plugs for it. I went 2 grades colder than recommended for a 173. They're pretty slim those 5/8 tapered plugs! NGK BP7FS.
I'll drive for a week and check them. If they're fouling I'll go up a grade. It's always best to go the coldest plug you can before oil fouling. But if it's too hot, it becomes a glow plug instead, igniting at random times.
The push rods are all the same 230mm, checked that at the wreckers. You can use the pivot posts (which hold 2 rockers) on pressed rocker studs, which saves doing all individual rockers. just torque the nuts to 40nm.
Still bloody stoked, as is the engine! ;D
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all good news then!
to tell you the truth im sort of glad you had engine trouble now ;D
hope you don't mind ;)
ps. ben, your right on the money with the $350-$400 quote...
that's including new valves as they apparently have to put slightly larger exhaust ones in the 173 head when it goes on the 202.
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Hey Rothu where did you get those plugs from bud? I tried to get them from coventrys over here but they didn't list them! (or so I was told :-\)
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I got the plugs from Bursons, at trade price $19 the lot.
Why do extractors make a difference? I can get some good ones for $45.
Able! You bugger! Well yes, I've researched and learnt a hell of a lot from the whole process for sure!
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Why do extractors make a difference? I can get some good ones for $45.
Extractors usually have a less restrictive flow, thus allowing the exhaust gasses to be expelled quicker.
If the exhaust gasses escape quicker then there is less back pressure left over when the cylinder is being filled, so more air fuel mixture can get in - making a bigger combustion.
Try breathing in and out through a straw, then through a cling wrap tube - notice the difference ?
Warren
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i had it explained to me that because of their design/shape they use the last cylinders exhaust to create vacuum and they virtually suck the next cylinders exhaust out when the valve opens.. hence the name extractor.
does that ring true?
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dunno, me simple man, bolt on extractor and van go faster sound nicer too but engine him get hotter
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i had it explained to me that because of their design/shape they use the last cylinders exhaust to create vacuum and they virtually suck the next cylinders exhaust out when the valve opens.. hence the name extractor.
does that ring true?
Yes Able thats pretty well it, well theres a lot more really but thats the general idea :D
Warren
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Ok, any one in melbourne got any spare extractors for a holden 6?
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There was a set especially designed for tight installs like the 173, 186, 202 into Bedford vans etc. They hugged the block a lot more and cut quite close to the trans. The only problem with them was that you had to remove them to change the starter motor.
You may find you have trouble with the sweep of a standard set.
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ive got a set for ya waiting here. ill drop em off!
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sorry i lied. they are for a blue/ black. no good.
ben
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Hey Ben why wont extractors off a blue or black motor fit My bro inlaw gave me a set off a black one You tellin me they wont fit BUMMER Cheers Reid
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Hey Ben why wont extractors off a blue or black motor fit My bro inlaw gave me a set off a black one You tellin me they wont fit BUMMER Cheers Reid
Rothu has a red head...
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red is 9 port blue black is 12 from what i belive if you put the blue black on on it will fight against itself somehow cause doesnt have as many ports?
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Hey Ben why wont extractors off a blue or black motor fit My bro inlaw gave me a set off a black one You tellin me they wont fit BUMMER Cheers Reid
Rothu has a red head...
I prefer blondes, but usually end up with Black Heads
Warren