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Technical => Driveline => Topic started by: Smartalec on July 31, 2009, 02:48:21 PM

Title: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on July 31, 2009, 02:48:21 PM
hi all..
i have the standered bedford rims complete with drums.

problem is the fround left wheel started smoking an it's comming from the drum..

wheel cant spin, cant take the hub off the drum, is there anyway to get the breaks to let go?
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Warren on July 31, 2009, 03:30:50 PM
Start by letting it cool down.

Then try unscrewing the adjuster, an elongated hole is at the bottom of the backing plate, which allows you to get a large flat screw driver in (or a specail brake adjusting tool) and push against the gear inside which turns the adjuster screw, you may have to lever either up or down to loosen the adjuster (depends on how the adjuster was put in).

Warren
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on July 31, 2009, 03:42:18 PM
thanks mate.. i have the book, an they talked about the adjuster, but they never said where it could be.. time to look an play around.. been 2hrs since last drove.. (yes it's taken me this long to admit i needed help..lol)
thanks again
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on July 31, 2009, 03:46:13 PM
it looks like the hole is blocked up.. (metal cap i think)
what do i do
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: hunterbynature on July 31, 2009, 03:49:19 PM
i think you will find its rubber probably gone hard, get a screwdriver and have a good poke about  stevo
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on July 31, 2009, 03:55:17 PM
looks like them hard plastic are actully attached to a sprint inside,, so i felt..
i cant see any other holes..
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: hunterbynature on July 31, 2009, 03:57:34 PM
they should lever out, they are somtimes trickey but do come out
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on July 31, 2009, 04:02:19 PM
the things im talking about at at the top an bottom of the drum
is there any pictures of the back of a drum to show me..
the manual does'nt show the backside of it (nor does it show the adjusting screw.. they say u need to use it tho)
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on July 31, 2009, 04:04:40 PM
by looking at the manual and apparently im playing with the pins that hold the shoe an lining in place..
wrong thing im guessing??
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on July 31, 2009, 04:06:35 PM
i think i see what your talking about .. but with the rear.. not with the frount
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: hunterbynature on July 31, 2009, 04:08:21 PM
give me a few mins will get back to you
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Warren on July 31, 2009, 04:10:22 PM
Have a look here

(http://www.buga.com.au/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=10530&g2_serialNumber=2)

while it is a rear brake from memory the front is the same (long time since I had drum fronts)

Warren
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on July 31, 2009, 04:15:27 PM
sorry warren,
 i need frount drum
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: hunterbynature on July 31, 2009, 04:17:12 PM
theres a rod with a square head on your backing plate turn that
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on July 31, 2009, 04:19:05 PM
there's 2 rod thingys each side..
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: hunterbynature on July 31, 2009, 04:21:08 PM
that correct one for each wheel cylinder, try each one untill its becomes lose, try your front one first if it becomes lose then due the rear one
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: hunterbynature on July 31, 2009, 04:26:18 PM
i presume that you heve the vehicle jacked up to work on the wheel, dont forget tpo put axle stand under aswell
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on July 31, 2009, 04:38:43 PM
u have a backup jack under her as well, an a spare tire at the back to stop the rolling
very very backyard

then things dont wannt turn.. an what way do i force them to turn

i was stupid an just pumped the breaks.. now it's gotten stiff again to turn the wheel hub..

could disconnecting the break line help?

whats the problem? an how much would it cost profeshionaly to fix it?

as light is dimming an i need the var first thing in the morning

Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: hunterbynature on July 31, 2009, 04:44:26 PM
if you turn say your front adjuster can you get any movement out of it?  you shouldn't have to turn it much to get any movement, dont disconnect the brake pipe just undo the bleed valve quickly then tighten again, this may relieve some pressure
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on July 31, 2009, 04:52:36 PM
yes i can just adjust them rods an it made it spin better.. not much
 but the hub still not wanting to come off..
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: hunterbynature on July 31, 2009, 04:55:31 PM
ok depending on the model of you bedford you mite have to take out your outer bearing, some modesl have the break drum attached to the hub, if you cant manipulate the drum off this will be the case
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on July 31, 2009, 05:00:57 PM
cf 1977 if that helps..

i undid the break nosel, then tighten back up, an now the wheel spins freely.. but i hear something loose in it..


even if i try an prise the hub off.. it looks like it might but it does'nt

you meen the cap in the middle of the wheel thats nicely greesed..

Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: hunterbynature on July 31, 2009, 05:04:36 PM
yes clean the grease off so you can see clearly, there will be a split pin, take that out, there will be a big washer, this may have a lock tab on it holding the big nut from spinning, lever the tags up so you can undo the lage nut, once nut is off pull bearing out and hub should come off
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on July 31, 2009, 05:25:22 PM
great now thats off an fingers greesy an anything..

now one of the cylinders seems to be leaking..
any work around to fix this temp, till i can get a part to fix it??

Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: hunterbynature on July 31, 2009, 05:33:40 PM
no best leave it till you can get it sorted properly, in my experience it pays to do both front wheel cylinders, put a new wheel cylinder in one side only creates uneven pressure on the other side which wiil probably be week aswell and mite blow so best to do both sides, dont muck around with the breaks if you dont no what your doing, it could be your life or someone elses, get a brake guy on the job, wheel bearing will have to be retighted to the right specs aswell,   go and have a beer  and wipe the gease off you key board  lol   stevo
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on July 31, 2009, 05:42:47 PM
so i need new cylinders hey.. whats the part number an can the local auto pro store get them for me

i dont mind doing this myself..

it's just that i have to have the van working by the morning to drive the miss's..
as her car blew up the other week..

the beddy is surposed to be off the road having a re-wire..
grr at mibisha magna's.. why could'nt you keep the g/f happy an stay working


is there anyway i can stop that side or cylinder.
since the fix is like 2weeks away.
an she needs to be working tonight (frount hub smokes otherwise[too hot])

besides both cylinders having a leaking problem.. one more than the other


note - im a poor bloke, who's only life enjoyment comes from driving my beddy around

Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on July 31, 2009, 05:53:16 PM
Next big Question..

where can i get a brake booster for the beddy from..
as mine have'nt worked since ive had the van..lol..
but i have brakes tho..
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: hunterbynature on July 31, 2009, 06:02:48 PM
theres no way to stop them leaking i have brake boosters over here but try ben pm him he has heaps of parts, dont no were you can get wheel cylinders from over there, i am in new zealand try putting another post up the guys over there will help you out cheers stevo
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: neville668bartos on July 31, 2009, 06:06:53 PM
you can get the boosters reconditioned. most brake places should be able to do it. i know a good one if ya happen to live in smellbourne
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on July 31, 2009, 06:35:21 PM
im in adelaide sa.
so what sort of price would i be looking at?

Or would now be the cheapest time to convert her to HQ Rims with disc brakes?? whats what cost??


PS. Thanks heaps "hunterbynature" with that, 'removing splitping an nut'.. did the trick

weirdest wheel setup ive ever seen..lol
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: ben on July 31, 2009, 06:53:58 PM
hey smartalec. looks like you have had some fun!!

heres my 2cents

$180 shpould get your booster recoed to new. $60 for a second hand not leaking one from me if i have one kicking around which i should.

if i were in your situation with the wheel cylinder i would pull it out wash it clean in brake fluid get some wet and dry 800 or something and scratch all the rust off the inside of the wheel cylinder have a good look at the rubber put it all back together and it should get you out of trouble for a few weeks.

i would be more inclined to get your old ones resleaved stainless steel (wont rust ever again) if you are planning on staying drums. its cheaper and better. and ofcourse new rubbers which are a standard rubber pretty sure.

going disc is a bit of stuffing around and its not something id do in a hurry. (or should do in a hurry) plus you need to get new rims too,

cheers
ben
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on July 31, 2009, 07:19:34 PM
well im convinced to stay with drum then..lol

now where an i get the rubbers an that for the cylinders.. or there different types?
what type of cylinders do i ask for at the auto shop?

the boster has waited 2yrs so far.. so a bit longer wont matter..
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: hunterbynature on July 31, 2009, 07:29:15 PM
take the old cylinder with you to get matched up, do you have bnt over there
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Kav on July 31, 2009, 07:38:17 PM
i have replaced front drum cylinders, abs brakes had them listed and only took overnight to get them in
i think there were two bore sizes listed so take it off and take it in to them, so they can measure it and get the right one, or the right seals if you are going to clean it up yourself
abs wont be the only one but you'll have better luck at a brake specialist than somewhere like stupercheap
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on July 31, 2009, 07:43:42 PM
what sort of prices am i looking at?
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Kav on July 31, 2009, 07:50:28 PM
i cant remember the price but i do recall being happy with it
heres a link
http://www.autobrakeservice.com.au/franchise.php?mode=viewstore&fid=7 (http://www.autobrakeservice.com.au/franchise.php?mode=viewstore&fid=7)
it appears most adelaide stores open on saturday morning
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: ben on July 31, 2009, 08:24:00 PM
rubber seals wont be much. a bloke gave me a set last time i wanted some:)
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on July 31, 2009, 09:09:29 PM
so mine are leaking out of both...
do i need to get rubber seals an hope that fix's it for the time being..

or order a couple of new cylinders to go in it.

i like the rubber seals idea if it will fix it (sounds cheap)
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: ben on July 31, 2009, 09:49:48 PM
make sure you clean up the inside of the cylinders first. depends on how bad they are.. photos??
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Kav on July 31, 2009, 10:03:56 PM
as the seals start to deteriorate, water and dirt get inside the brake cylinder, rust and dirt builds up destroying the seal more and making an uneven surface that the seal can't seal against.
eventually this crap builds up so much that when the piston pushes out, it gets stuck and won't come back in causing the symptoms you have described
as ben said earlier you can clean it out and smooth it back with fine wet n dry so a seal will work again, but chances are if it has gone to the point of getting stuck, it is quite corroded and may takes a lot of work to make it good again
i have, in order of worst to best
1. when stuck out bush, done them with fine paper wrapped around my finger, probably causing an uneven surface, and put the old seals back in, that only just got me out of trouble

2. with access to tools but not much money, turned a piece of broom handle on  a lathe to just smaller than the cylinder bore, wrapped it in piece of flannelet shirt, smothered it in grinding paste, and spun it in a drill inside the bore, producing excellent results, fine smooth even honing.  put new seals in

3. with money and limited time, take it to the brake place and buy new ones

no. 3 was my favourite and safest method of dealing with this type of problem
it all depends on budget and your level of ability to d.i.y
thats a fine looking van you have, it would be a shame to put a ding in it
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: ben on July 31, 2009, 10:11:57 PM
yeh not a good idea to play with brakes but if you got no money and no car to get more money not a lot of choice.

i drove drum brakes i had honed for about a year after that but it only had a slight leak. not getting stuck with the rust.

ben
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Kav on July 31, 2009, 10:18:30 PM
another thing to consider while its all apart is making sure the adjusting posts are clean and free to move, so you can always keep the brake shoes adjusted up nicely
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on August 01, 2009, 10:23:37 AM
hi guys.. it looks like im trying the kit/rubber bootie way

now there is 2 types.. one is $75 per cylinder an the other is $100 per cylinder... ouchies in my pocket

but then i herd the rubber bootie/kit was only $18 or $18.50 per cylinder

them ABS people are great with phone support.
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Kav on August 01, 2009, 11:22:30 AM
nice one, cleanliness is the key here, once its all nice and clean be careful with it ya dont want any bits of dirt or rust damaging the seal
dont be tempted to scrape the cylinder with a screwdriver or  anything to get stuff off as that will gouge it and make channels for leaking
make sure you clean the piston aswell
one at a time so you dont forget which way the seal was facing
unscrew the bleeder valve and clean it incase it is/ or gets blocked up, you might have to stick a pin or fine drill bit in the bleeder holes to get crap out
have fun
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on August 01, 2009, 11:46:08 AM
nice one, cleanliness is the key here, once its all nice and clean be careful with it ya dont want any bits of dirt or rust damaging the seal
dont be tempted to scrape the cylinder with a screwdriver or  anything to get stuff off as that will gouge it and make channels for leaking
make sure you clean the piston aswell

so cleaning them in an icecream container with power steering in it..eg dis-assemble (till looking like new?)
re-assemble the cylinder, fit the new rubbers, an then install it..

am i correct with this cleaning procedure.. if so i might do it tomorrow if it's a nice day outside

the hardest part would be knowing what type of cylinder kit i need since there is 2..
but taking the cylinder there, sorta sucks cause thats my ride you see..
(see if i can get the miss's car semi going)
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Kav on August 01, 2009, 07:16:12 PM
you gotta bite the bullet man, that there van is broke down
pull it out and catch the bus to the brake shop 
the listing at the brake place should specify what size, if you take it out and measure it you'll have to put it back in and bleed the brakes to drive there in which time you could have gone there and back some other way
i'd use brake fluid to clean as ya going to have that stuff dripping around anyway
clean the outside first so you dont constantly pick up stuff from outside and rub it around inside
be gentle on the inside and take your time with the fine wet n dry constantly rinsing it out so you dont scratch the surface with the crap that is coming off
blow it out with compressed air, at the servo if ya have to, make sure the bleeder holes arent blocked
when its clean and smooth, lubricate the bore and the (clean) piston with brake fluid then carefully slide the seal on facing the right direction
slide the piston into the bore
put the dust boot on
screw in the bleeder valve
if i haven't done something before  i find it handy to take digtal photos as i take the thing apart
it saves time wondering which way up or where this piece came from and you can put it on the computer and zoom in
 
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: hotrod on August 01, 2009, 08:07:45 PM
If your gunna do it DO IT RIGHT! A temp fix to get you out of trouble takes as long and costs more in the long run!
wheel cylinder honing tool $19.00 rinse with metho $2.00 as honing
Cups and washers $3.00 each
just re-coed my rears cost $43.00 (pair) and now I have a honing tool!
 Re-assemble using rubber grease!
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Kav on August 01, 2009, 10:10:18 PM
that's the way, d.i.y but properly
bush mechanics rocks and it prepares us for our future mad max lifestyle when the world as we know it collapses and we, the chosen few, rule the highways in our mutated bedford survival machines,
 oh but back to the point,  its better to get the right tool or part and do a good job

you'll be able to barter cylinder honing for beer, in the post holocost wastelands, but i'll just have this soggy old bit of sand paper that no-one wants
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on August 02, 2009, 01:24:21 AM
If your gunna do it DO IT RIGHT! A temp fix to get you out of trouble takes as long and costs more in the long run!
wheel cylinder honing tool $19.00 rinse with metho $2.00 as honing
Cups and washers $3.00 each
just re-coed my rears cost $43.00 (pair) and now I have a honing tool!
 Re-assemble using rubber grease!

o.k. ive just googled what a wheel cylinder honing tool is..
im guessing something like that would be easer than the fine sandpaper..

but would it be safe with a newbie.. (computer tech by trade) only learning cars cause the bedford is simple to learn an will be easer to fix "when the world as we know it collapses and we, the chosen few, rule the highways in our mutated bedford survival machines," 2012 not that long now.. (would surfboards float a beddy if the world flooded) just an idea
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: hotrod on August 02, 2009, 07:35:46 AM
clamp the cylinder in/to something then put the honing tool in a drill and insert into cylinder,drizzle in some metho, pull the trigger in very short bursts(don't get to full speed) whilst moving the hone in and out getting just the end of the hone to poke out either end of the cylinder, have someone drizzle in metho as you are going.
30 secs and you are done,
A finger in wet and dry will not get/keep the cylinder round
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: ben on August 02, 2009, 02:52:56 PM
Quote
future mad max lifestyle when the world as we know it collapses and we, the chosen few, rule the highways in our mutated bedford survival machines,

i used to dream about this all the time. before i knew about bedfords..  but how good would this be!!!!!!!!!! ill be the first to have wood wheels!!!
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on August 05, 2009, 05:31:15 PM
why is it cops allways hassle bedford owners.. if its not for one thing it's another..

i had to get flaired guards just to stop them telling me my wheels over hang the body of the van..

what about 4WD's there tyres over hang.. more than mine ever did..

or are they just jellious cause we have the shagging van an they only have the snotbox..lol
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on August 05, 2009, 05:32:43 PM
just had a wicked idea..
a oil gun at the back of the van to spray all them cars that want to sit up my arse, when im having my lovely drive.. ;D

Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: ben on August 06, 2009, 08:00:06 AM
i never get hassled. infact ive never been pulled over driving the evil black beddy. only when i using my phone while driving. wich i dont do anymore cause i got a hands free!!!!

so it must be you bud. or south australia.

Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Bas NZ on August 06, 2009, 08:20:18 AM
Gee Ben, you can drive hands free, O you are talking about the phone ;D
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Smartalec on August 06, 2009, 10:05:34 AM
i think it's me, an cause mine needs a paint job badly,
 so i put skeliton stickers all over it..
I got told once holden's are show cars fords are mussle cares.. ???
so i got rid of the ford an got the bedford, i would rather a show car.
i love the comments people say as i drive by.
i think its cause people remember scooby doo van , an cops remember it as a dead body van. (there dead bodys)  ;D
one wheel was slightly going to the wear line.. so he defected it for the wheel.. an extra ($70bucks i did'nt want to spend on top of the tyre as well)
but then , the amount of respect i get from other drivers on the road is great. even the miss's enjoys doing the hi-way driving
Title: Re: Needing help badly, frount brake locked on
Post by: Warren on August 06, 2009, 01:07:27 PM
i never get hassled. infact ive never been pulled over driving the evil black beddy. only when i using my phone while driving. wich i dont do anymore cause i got a hands free!!!!


I thought you paid 50 bucks for that big bag of Hands - they sure do come in HANDY though :D


Warren
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