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Technical => Driveline => Topic started by: SandB on May 06, 2009, 07:52:06 PM

Title: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: SandB on May 06, 2009, 07:52:06 PM
 >:(  Hi Everyone, Sorry to bring this subject up again but we are in a bit of a delemma. Unless I can find a simple, practical  AND "Cheap"" way to put power steering on our Beddie, it will probably end up being sold (Much to our dissapointment, as we love her)

My problem is that both of my shoulders are F#@%*&D and the Beddie is our tow car. reversing a large car trailer is a nightmare!!

Any practical input would be greatly appreciated. Is there a kit that relatively easily will fix our problem????

 >:(  ???  :-[  Don't make us sell "OUR BABY""      Cheers Brian O
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: waikatostocky on May 06, 2009, 08:34:46 PM
Mate that would be a shame to sell it. :'(

 Im not sure what power steering box u could use but i aws looking into a toyota or a mr2 electric power steering unit as it runs on power not off the motor and is realy easey to addapt to any steering box. ;)

Just a thought .

Cheers Paddy
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: Bas NZ on May 06, 2009, 09:17:08 PM
Hey, Mk2 Transit 1997 - 1998 model, easy fit and cheap to buy! You will need to get the pro's to do it as some machine work is needed. There is a post on this in the Old Buga Forum under steering and drivetrains I think.

Cheers
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: SandB on May 06, 2009, 09:22:38 PM
Thanks Baz, Will check out the old forum. Might buy a rack in NZ!!  Brian O
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: SandB on May 06, 2009, 09:27:34 PM
Will be in NZ next week for a flying visit. Not much time t do stuff all, but  if anyones got a spare minute t talk; I'd love t meet ya. I will be in Auckland, Keripehi  And Te aroha.
Cheers Brian O
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: waikatostocky on May 06, 2009, 09:32:13 PM
What dates will u be where?

Would be good to meet bro.lol
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: SandB on May 06, 2009, 10:28:17 PM
I know this is tough, but will be outa Te Aroha ; late Thursday morning. gotta be back in Auckland Thursday nite. Maybe lunch, wherever you are (did I see Hamilton) for a yack and a beer??  Wish I had more time this trip (Home!!)
Cheers Brian
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: BlackBedford on May 06, 2009, 10:56:08 PM
G'day

I have a CFL truck with a VR V6 motor and a Transit rack. The steering is excellent. There is a slight loss of turning circle but never had an issue.

(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb11/blackbedford/DSCF1260-s.jpg)
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: waikatostocky on May 06, 2009, 11:47:44 PM
Yea mate im keen. if your going to be coming through hamilton could catch up at my place for a woodstock or 2. or if you prefure to meet up somewhere elese thats all good.

Let me know

Cheers Paddy. ;D
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: eddy on May 07, 2009, 05:05:21 PM
take me with you, I need some aroha  ;D
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: waikatostocky on May 07, 2009, 06:11:53 PM
No worrys eddy ur more than wellcome mate.lol :D ;) :)
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: silverado on May 24, 2009, 09:29:13 PM
My mate spotted a beddy CF camper on TM tonight and it said power steer, so he took a peek, according to the cert plate, of which there was a very clear photo, the plate said the van had a R&P power steer from a Worsley.

Now I got thinking, the pom's dont change stuff to often, so I recon there is a good shot that a rack from something like an SD1 Rover or an Austin Princess has got to be a darn near match for a CF rack.

Anyway im chasing this one down and il tell you if I come up trumps, becuase im going to do a power conversion on my van.
My elbows are paku and I dont need any more grief than what I give them lifting a cuppa tea and weilding a hammer on a project.

The days of armstong steering are long gone, even my ol 67 Beddy twin steer bus has power steer.

Rusty 
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: silverado on May 27, 2009, 06:28:36 PM
Well I spent a few hours searching around pick A part today with tape measure in hand, looking under cars, vans etc for suitable power steering rack's for transplant in to CF's.

Sadly they are all too short, the CF rack id around 700 long measureing the main body add the that, ties rod shafts and it's a particularly long rack.

So I went in search of a transit rack, what I found is that, although the body of the rack is only around 550 long, the tie rod shaftes are very long and this allows it to be addapted, as we are already aware.

I got quoted $250 for a second hand rack from a reputable dismantler, but im sure if I shop around I can get one cheaper.

So thats the update, but im sure if i keep searching I will find another long rack that will do the job.

Cheers
Rusty
 
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: Bas NZ on May 27, 2009, 06:39:20 PM
Rusty, the price is ok, you need to cut 2.5 inch's off each end and re thead for Bedford tierods,
Mounting points are good.  Bas
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: silverado on May 27, 2009, 07:45:24 PM
Hi Bas
I think il need to make some mounts up, as the transit mounts are not as far apart as the CF ones.

The other thing ive noticed is that the rack mounting points on the sub frame appear to be different between the CF1 and CF2

There is a picture in this thread of a transit rack in a CF1 and its mounting is very different to mine, unless they have completly cut away the original mounts ??

Yep knew about the tie rod threads, thanks picked up on that in the other posts.

The next step will be a steering pump to fit the ol Holden 186 and im going to have to fit a double crank pully to drive it.

Might be out your way tomorrow arvo on my way back up north, so may call to say gidday.

Rusty   
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: Bas NZ on May 28, 2009, 08:25:33 AM
Yep Rusty, had a mate make up some mounts for me he made them so they bolt onto the Bedford mounts and then the Transit, yes mine is a Mk2 now but was a mk 1, Crank pully double NO it is the water pump/ fan belt pully that is a double one!!! Pump I used is Holden bolts on to the alternater bracket, use one for a holden that had power steering on it. My unit is off at the moment has it has to go though a WOF as steering has no cert, as motor etc has no cert as factory fitted. As it has been of the road for a while it will have an extra going over by the boys.
When I had it on it worked great, lost a little bit of turning but easy to make up with power steering. The rack I have on now has extra teeth in it so its a lot easeir than the standard rack, imported this from the UK many years ago.
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: BlackBedford on May 28, 2009, 08:55:36 AM
When I had it on it worked great, lost a little bit of turning but easy to make up with power steering. The rack I have on now has extra teeth in it so its a lot easeir than the standard rack, imported this from the UK many years ago.

G'day
How many extra teeth are in it?
Any idea of what year model Transit the rack was out of?

Regards
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: Bas NZ on May 28, 2009, 09:19:54 AM
Extra 2 teeth, don't sound like much but makes a big differance, made for the old ambo's in the UK. so may be rear to find, same as the Trimatic overdrive I have, made for the Ambo's only. Will try and dig out old paper work if I can find it, brought it from a comoany who reco's them over there.
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: Bas NZ on May 28, 2009, 09:24:48 AM
PS, the extra teeth are on the top drive part not the rack.
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: BlackBedford on May 28, 2009, 09:39:11 AM
made for the old ambo's in the UK. so may be rear to find,

I missed something, The rack you have is a power unit out of a Transit?
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: silverado on May 28, 2009, 03:56:21 PM
Thanks Bas
Got the extra info form you, all good on the water pump pully that makes life easier, I may replace my water pump when I get the pully as the pump has a little play in it.

Im still in AK, my Mum keeps finding things for me to do for her, so we still may catch up.

Cheers
Rusty 
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: silverado on June 09, 2009, 03:54:35 PM
Whoo Hooo Power steering sorted, today i purchased a rare Leyland P76 power steeering rack "cheap" it 1300 long from tie rod end ball center to same on other end.

The beddi unit is 1045 across the same point so minimal conversion requierd and should retain 99% of the steering lock.

Bloody Brilliant
Rusty
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: Dano on June 10, 2009, 02:14:01 AM
ah that reminds me, checked out the VT power steering the other day took measurements..... yet to play . can pick up a full unit $330 ...hows that for price?
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: silverado on June 10, 2009, 09:18:21 AM
Thats not too bad, although ive got the P76 rack im still looking at others as this is an ongoing challenge for members on here.

It would be good to find a rack thats reasonably cheap and easy to source, that doesnt requier too much modification.

Im looking at a Triumph 2500 rack, they are fairly long, but have as yet to measure one up and see what i come up with.

Rusty
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: Merlin on June 10, 2009, 02:21:05 PM
guys make sure you get a front mounted rack .if yuo fit a rear mounted rack in the original bedi spot yuor steering will be reversed                Cheers Neil
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: doofhard on June 10, 2009, 02:54:09 PM
that sounds like fun.  Be funny if someone tried to steal it
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: silverado on June 10, 2009, 04:19:38 PM
Thats easy to fix ya just put the steering whell on upside down !! ::) ::)

P76 is a front mount rack
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: BusyKiwi on June 10, 2009, 07:21:35 PM
I think I might have found it.
In a trade magazine today there was a thing on power steering ... long story short Toyota Rav 4 and some Chevys come out factory with electric power steering.
The thing with this unit is the power unit fits to the column, not on the steering rack.
I'm chatting with the toyota guys trying to find out some techncal details and price etc
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: silverado on June 10, 2009, 07:23:14 PM
That sounds really interesting, I will look forward to hearing how you get on.
Some models of fait Punto have electric power steering as well, but it's likely to light for a CF beddie, the RAV 4 would be a better option as they are 4wd and would requier a heavier system.

Rusty
 
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: ShaneJ on June 10, 2009, 08:56:29 PM
A lot of newer cars have EPS. In the toyota range you have the RAV, Celica, Hilux, Aurion, Avalon, Avensis, Camry, Kluger, Landcruiser, Tarago etc

Have fun trying to get it to work though ??? To start off with you're going to need the full column which has the torsion bar(the part that determines the amount of power input needed) and the motor with safety cut out clutch. You then need the EPS ECU which controls its all. The EPS ECU requires a speed input which is generally provided by the main ECU and on the models I have played with it required inputs from sensors located on the front hubs.

After playing with these setups I came to the conclusion that conventional power steering would be easier and going electric would be an absolute last resort.
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: BlackBedford on June 10, 2009, 11:01:38 PM
G'day

A bit more on EPS Electric Power Steering.
The Suzuki Carry van I am using at the moment has EPS as standard in Pommyland. I contacted a couple of wreckers over there to try and get one but they said EPS units are notoriously unreliable and the first part to sell out of any car with one in it.

Here are some good articles:
http://www.suzuki-forums.com/attachments/suzuki-carry-every-forum/4208d1165899179-power-steering-power-steering.pdf (http://www.suzuki-forums.com/attachments/suzuki-carry-every-forum/4208d1165899179-power-steering-power-steering.pdf)
http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki-carry-every-forum/16492-power-steering.html (http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki-carry-every-forum/16492-power-steering.html)

If you are interested in having a go at EPS then an easy way to go is the Vauxhall Corsa.

The Vauxhall Corsa has EPS and it is a popular conversion for kit cars and Escorts etc.

ebay seller corsapower11 has the following:
CORSA RALLY ELECTRIC POWER STEERING COLUMN CONTROLLER
fully assembled with ECU plug, just add 12V   Item number: 180366175287

ebay seller dongiles9rbr has the following:
Corsa rally kit Escort Electric Power steering Control
The Original David Hyland Unit ++++ 12mth warranty ++++   Item number: 320374225636

I suspect it is a couple of 555 timer circuits. I note the word "RALLY" in the description so legality may be an issue.

Here is an interesting article about modifying EPS:
http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Modifying-Electric-Power-Steering/A_2390/article.html (http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Modifying-Electric-Power-Steering/A_2390/article.html)

I note that EPS is mainly used on small cars.
Larger cars are using conversions such as this ebay item:
JAGUAR MK2 ELECTRIC POWER ASSISTED STEERING CONVERSION Item number: 300320587736
Although they also suplly this:
JAGUAR E-TYPE ELECTRIC POWER ASSISTED STEERING CONVERSION  Item number: 290321701940   

I can't see why EPS wouldn't work in a CF, just a bit worried about reliability.
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: Rogue Trooper on June 11, 2009, 06:45:38 AM
I'm with Shane. I had issues in my old MR2 with the power steering. What a mission. There are several control boxes as well as all the sensors and signal feeds blah. I have some reasonable experience with electrickery and I wouldn't go anywhere near it. It'll be conventional power steering for me.

There are some aftermarket kits available for this to but as Shane has pointed out it involves a complete change of steering column etc, etc.
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: silverado on June 11, 2009, 09:56:49 AM
Umm glad I found the P76 rack.
Oh well if it was all easy monkeys would be doing it eh  ::)
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: Sundownernz on June 11, 2009, 10:30:06 AM
I'll just stick with my Porsche LHD conversion. Does the trick for me.

Garry.
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: Rogue Trooper on June 11, 2009, 10:40:13 AM
I'll just stick with my Porsche LHD conversion. Does the trick for me.

Garry.

Yep and I'll be looking at that one too. Just got to get the damned thing actually on the road first.  ::)
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: Bas NZ on June 11, 2009, 04:45:51 PM
Rogue, the power steering is great when you are pulling the van in and out all the time.
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: BlackBedford on June 11, 2009, 05:53:53 PM
G'day
I would agree, power steering is definitely the go, especially with a sports steering wheel.
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: Rogue Trooper on June 12, 2009, 07:29:47 AM
Rogue, the power steering is great when you are pulling the van in and out all the time.

Having an engine is even better!!! ;D
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: silverado on June 13, 2009, 02:31:30 PM
Here are some really simple steering universals that would make a conversion easier, no spline required.

Im sure you Ausi folk can get these local, but you may not of thought of using them or realised the hold-on bananna's used these cotter pin universal joints.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=223405137 (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=223405137)

Cheers
Rusty
 
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: ethyl on June 13, 2009, 05:37:33 PM
yes very handy when you put a V8 into a LC/LJ
Rares sell them
but remember the groove for the pin must be cold machined and shaft cold cut, no angle grinders
that's according to Trans SA regs, would expect similar elsewhere
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: silverado on June 13, 2009, 06:59:26 PM
You can do it with a grinder but it pays to get in to the pool first and then do it underwater with the ginder.
This stops the shaft from heating up... ;) ::)

Rusty

 
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: ben on June 13, 2009, 10:36:45 PM
that sounds a little dangerous rusty.

id just take it to the snow when im going next week:)) do it in the snow. that shouuld then pass the SA regs.


whats regs anyway?
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: Bas NZ on June 14, 2009, 10:07:47 AM
Ok Rouge, will agree an engine is a important thing to have, so maybe this before the power steering then............ :D
Title: Re: Power Steering Conversion
Post by: silverado on June 14, 2009, 01:12:20 PM
well i cant work out how the SA boys would know if you did it with a grinder or cold cut it.
Yes i know, if you heat the shaft its weaker ..... :P

The ginder is fine in the pool just wear your gumboots so your not grounded  :o 
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